October 8, 2006

Sunday In New York

Will George Steinbrenner -- reportedly as angry as he's ever been -- replace Joe Torre with Lou Pinella?

Mike Lupica, Daily News:
This is just as bad for the Yankees, losing these last three to the Tigers this way, not even competing in the last two, as losing four in a row to the Red Sox two years ago. These Yankees have now become the biggest postseason flops in the history of the team, maybe any team. ...

This is now three times in five years, with a payroll three times the size of most playoff teams, that Joe Torre can't make it to the second round. Tell me another manager, no matter how well-respected, no matter how classy, who survives that?
SoSH cackles with glee.







And in Detroit ...

16 comments:

Jack Marshall said...

One last overly long gripe about the ridiculous pro-Yankee bias that led virtually all the "experts" to make asses of themselves by predicting that this no-pitch team would roll over a Tiger team that clearly outplayed them for most of the year.

Twice on the Yankee death-watch telecast yesterday, one of Fox's morons said that the Yankees line-up "arguably" was the best ever.

OK: MAKE that argument, you fools! Did the Yankees score a record number of runs during the season? No, not even close. Did the so-called All-Star line-up, in the ten or so games it atually played together, demonstrate that it was an offensive juggernaut against competitive teams? No. Did even one member of the line-up have a league-leading offensive season? A dominent offensive season? No. One of the 20 best of all time? 50? 100? No, No and No.

Did one member of the line-up have the best offensive season for any player at his position? Yes, one: Cano at second. Big deal. Should Sheffield and Matsui, at advanced ages, be credited with season stats close to their career best in assessing the strength of the offense? Of course not. Is there even a coherent argument to be made that this line-up was superior offensively to other Yankee line-ups from the past, like 1927, 1936, 1941, 1950, 1961, or 1978?
Not that I can see.

The bottom line is that the Yankees did NOT have a line-up that was "arguably" the best ever, because there are no legitimate arguments to be made.

The least fun part of being a knowledgable baseball fan is that you have to listen to and read so many unbelievably stupid statements from reporters and announcers, and then have to listen to your casual fan friends parrot them back to you as if they were rare nuggets of insight.

L-girl said...

For the last two months, I've been so glad not to be in NYC. Today, however, it would be fun. :-)

Sweep and weep!

Hey Allan, any word from Gutch?

Woti-woti said...

Great last paragraph, Jack. It's ironic that MLB has the moronic Tommy Lasorda making commercials to exhort real baseball fans to continue watching the post-season even though their teams aren't in. Your final paragraph outlines exactly what turns real fans off from watching--nothing to do with how their own teams did.

redsock said...

Guuuuuuuuuuuutch?

Where are youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu?

Jack Marshall said...

Now, now, now...let's be a little kind and classy to poor Gutch. A fan's still a fan, and even a Yankee fan has human DNA.I will always appreciate the fact that my Yankee fan friends (yes, I had some once)allowed me to mourn in silence when the Sox lost the play-off in 1978 (NOT, as legend now has it, because of Bucky Dent, but because Lou Pinella's blind lunge for the fly he lost in the sun stopped it from bouncing by him for a game-tying triple by pure, dumb luck) and didn't taunt me into a nervous breakdown.
Taking glee in the pain of another is a bad habit to get into (I have to keep reminding myself), but rubbing a broken-hearted fan's face in his team's poop is especially wrong for Sox fans, given that we know how it feels.

We sympathize, Gutch.

Now please, find a less objectionable team to root for.

Jackie said...

Am I the only person here who thinks Torre's been overrated the last ten years or so? Not that he's a BAD manager, per se, but I also wouldn't call him one of the beset. He had his success with teams that were cohesive, had terrific pitching and probably would have won under any average manager. He's done poorly with less talented/less cohesive teams. How does that make him a fantastic manager?

I also wonder how much Jeter loves having A-Rod around to take the blame for all the Yankees failures. Of course they all "take responsibility" in the interviews, but you know nobody ever blames CI for not hitting better or whatever (he was 3-for-11 in the last three games) - or anyone else for that matter. Yet when they win, A-Rod never gets credit. Which is not to say that I like him or feel sorry for him, but... must be kind of nice to have an automatic team scapegoat.

redsock said...

Am I the only person here who thinks Torre's been overrated the last ten years or so?

Not by a long shot.

L-girl said...

I will always appreciate the fact that my Yankee fan friends (yes, I had some once)allowed me to mourn in silence when the Sox lost the play-off in 1978

Sure. And if Gutch was one of those, he wouldn't have been here crowing a few days ago, asking for predictions and telling us he "respects" our wishful thinking.

The only reason we're calling his name is because he came around preening and gloating.

Some people here know a thing or two about allowing the other to mourn in silence, beginning with 1986, straight through to 2001.

L-girl said...

The least fun part of being a knowledgable baseball fan is that you have to listen to and read so many unbelievably stupid statements from reporters and announcers, and then have to listen to your casual fan friends parrot them back to you as if they were rare nuggets of insight.

OMG is that ever true. The trick is to not have any friends who are into baseball. Or to not have any friends.

Being deaf might help, too.

redsock said...

The least fun part of being a knowledgable baseball fan is that you have to listen to and read so many unbelievably stupid statements from reporters and announcers

This was the main reason why I said I wasn't sure how much of the playoffs I would watch.

Haven't seen more than a batter or two so far. We'll watch the WS, but who knows about the two CS?

Jack Marshall said...

I think we have to give Torre his due, and if George sacks him as the media in NY is predicting, it's a good day for the Red Sox.

Last year his pitching was destroyed by injury, and he still managed to win 97 with the likes of Aaron Small, Chacon and Al Leiter. This year, when he lost two star outfielders and was using Terrence Long in right and people like Sal Fassero at catcher, he still kept the team from slumping and falling hopelesly behind the Sox. Some of this was luck and some was Cashman, but Francona's team basically crashed when the injuries came, and Torre's team muddled through. He has to get some of the credit for that.

Think its easy to manage Gary Sheffield? Johnson? Mussina?
George? Torre's no genius, but he's the perfect manager for a Yankee team.

Jere said...

How can Lip say this is "as bad" as 2004? Not quite.

Jack Marshall said...

You're right...it's nuts, and disrespectful to a very good Tiger team...better than the Yankees, if people would open their damn eyes. What a humiliation...losing a best of 5 series in 4 games! You didn't hear such crap in 1975, when the World Champion A's, after 3 straight WS appearances, lost to the Red Sox in three straight. It's "worse" because the Yankees really think that if they buy enough golden resumes, they can't be beaten. And the cretins in the booth believe it!!!

Jackie said...

Jack - I'm definitely not saying that Torre's worse than Tito! Just that he's not the demigod that so many people are making him out to be.

(Full disclosure: I'm not overly fond of Francona; I don't think we should have fallen apart anywhere near as dramatically as we did in August, injuries or no, and I feel that if we had a better manager we might have had a better record.)

For the most part, I don't think a manager can take too much credit or blame for his team's performance, except in some extraordinary cases. Either the players get it done or they don't, and this year's failure (for the Red Sox and the Yankees) is 99% the players not getting it done.

But I have to say Torre's management of the ALDS was baffling at best, and the contrast with Leyland made him look worse. Constantly shuffling the lineup etc... hate to agree with Gary Sheffield (vomit) but I think he made a few good points earlier today.

Jack Marshall said...

Torre panicked, maybe because he had a "win or else" message from George. Batting ARod 8th was a panicky move. Benching Giambi, playing Sheffield at a new position...all panicky and very uncharcateristic. I thought he would go with the horses that won it, even leaving Melky in left. The last two weeks of the season is a hell of a time to use a brand new line-up just so a few cretins can say you have "the best offense ever."

Zenslinger said...

I was in New York over the weekend and was glad to have it all over with so a Game 5 did not mar our night out Sunday.

This morning, before the announcement that Torre would be back, I picked up the NYPost. No less than 10 pages of rehashing the same Torre issues. Incredible.

I have become a little too sympathetic, with more and more Yankee fan associates and friends all the time. But it was still sweet.

One Yankee fan told me the other day that it was "proven" that there are more Red Sox fans than Yankee fans nationwide now. Edging toward some kind of underdog status for the MFY. I have not researched this claim yet.