October 2, 2006

Two Coaches -- Jackson and Wallace -- Axed

The Globe's Eric Wilbur reports that hitting coach Ron Jackson and pitching coach Dave Wallace will not return in 2007 (or have other jobs in the organization).

Does this mean Al Nipper will be next year's official pitching coach? Ugh.

21 comments:

Yaz-Tex said...

Interesting that management chose to axe Jackson and Wallace on the same day - the scapegoat daily double.

The player reactions will be interesting to watch.

Jack Marshall said...

What??? How could they axe Papa Jack? This makes NO sense at all...awful move.

L-girl said...

Is there any evidence that either of those men actually contributed anything this season?

Mike said...

L-Girl: Do you want the truth, or the ABC/Disney version?

Matthew Kory said...

Its impossible to know one way or the other what a pitching or a hitting coach really contributed to a team. We can look at the team's hitting and pitching stats, but of course available talent, luck, and a host of other factors play a large and unknown part in this as well.

If we judge only by team stats then I would argue that both Papa Jack (who I like) and Wallace deserve to go. The Red Sox pitching was awful this year, and outside of Ortiz and Manny there wasn't much contribution from anyone else, especially in August when the season was going down the tubes.

In any case, I will bow to those within the organization on this move because they have more information than any of us, and assume that its the right thing to do.

Woti-woti said...

Yeah, so L-girl, is that the sabermetric analysis you want or the scouting reports?

L-girl said...

L-Girl: Do you want the truth, or the ABC/Disney version?

Are you insulting me, or you don't know me at all and think I might be an idiot?

L-girl said...

Yeah, so L-girl, is that the sabermetric analysis you want or the scouting reports?

I'll take both, thanks. What's up with that, Woti - was he just being sexist?

The Red Sox pitching was awful this year, and outside of Ortiz and Manny there wasn't much contribution from anyone else, especially in August when the season was going down the tubes.

True and true. So why should it come as a surprise when the pitching and batting coaches are fired? Papa Jack is popular with fans and announcers, but the FO shouldn't factor that in.

L-girl said...

Oh shit, I just realized who Mike is.

Mike, I'm sorry. You were not insulting me and I highly doubt you were being sexist.

I was just shocked to have someone ask me if I wanted ABC/Disney anything!

I'm sorry about that, my friend.

Yaz-Tex said...

Today's Globe offers a detailed account on Theo's decisions to fire Wallace and Papa Jack, with the following but one excerpt that reveals the much greater chasm that often exists in that relatively short distance between the dugout and the front office:

``I think the thing I find most disappointing is that in four years, nobody ever asked my opinion about bringing in a player," Wallace said. ``In 2003, I was brought into the middle of chaos and we almost won it. The next year we won the World Series, and the year after that, without [Curt] Schilling and [Keith] Foulke, we got in [the playoffs].

`I just wish someone could give me a reason."


Statistically, the numbers offer compelling evidence that the 2006 Red Sox could have pitched and hit better, but there's more than enough blame in each area to go around. In Wallace's case, how many times did Tito's non-existent hook cost this team? Is Jackson the sole reason why Tek's average was worse than Gonzalez?

As someone once famously opined, if you want loyalty, get a dog. Both Wallace and Jackson were class acts who represented the organization well, and both deserved a better fate.

Jere said...

"both Papa Jack (who I like) and Wallace deserve to go. The Red Sox pitching was awful this year,"

Are we all just forgetting that Wallace wasn't even around much the whole season? Shouldn't we be firing Al Nipper?

When I heard he was canned, I figured it was becuase of his health. Papa Jack going doesn't make sense to me, though.

Peter N said...

No way Nipps will be back..the successor is just about picked...see my blog for that! Just about to watch the Papi special from last night, guys. It's on its way to you as of 9am!!!!!!!

L-girl said...

Just about to watch the Papi special from last night, guys. It's on its way to you as of 9am!!!!!!!

Thanks, Peter N!

Peter N said...

And I, just this moment, sent you two an email about the too short 30 minute show..it's on my blog, but also in your email. Take care!!! It makes me happy to share something as wonderful as this. Peter

Matthew Kory said...

Jere - yr right about Nipper. But I wasn't advocating the firing of Papa Jack or Wallace (or Nipper). I was just saying that based on the information we have about the team (they under-performed, assuming that is your opinion) the coaches in charge of the specific aspects in which the team under-performed should be let go.

I like those guys and I don't like to see anyone get fired, but the people who run the team think it will help the Red Sox get better, and I'm going to trust them until they show they can't be trusted.

Jack Marshall said...

I don't see the evidence for firing Jackson. Papi had a terrific season,and he's been aJackson project. Pena had his best year at bat in terms of making contact and getting on base. Lowell rebounded when nobody thought he would. Youklis was hurt by injuries at the ned, but he had a good year. Gonzalez season was pretty representative. The disappointing offensive figures boil down to Varitek (bad year, maybe age-related decline); Crisp (apparently everyone belives that his finger was the culprit) and Nixon (continuing a decline that has been going on awhile.) Where exactly did Jackson not perform? The OBA stayed up there. He predates Francona; you have to figure that Tito just wanted someone else. As for Wallace...well, any time the pitching underperforms two years running, the pitching coach is toast, injuries or not. It was annoying how many relief pitchers dumped by the Sox pitched well elsewhere this season: Todd Jones, Embree, Stanton, Myers, Meredith... plus earlier dumps like Mahay, Shouse,Lyon, Fassero, Gordon.

Jere said...

"Pena had his best year at bat in terms of making contact and getting on base"

Two years ago, the year he had the most ABs, Pena struck out at a lower rate than this season.

He improved a little in the walk department, but 1 every 13.8 AB isn't so good.

His slugging dropped for second year in a row, as did his HR rate.

But you're right, he got on base more.

Combine all that with something you brought up the other day, that we didn't have an established starter in the 5-spot once all year, and I think I take home the belt in the Wily Mo/Bronson debate, for 2006, anyway.

Peter N said...

Hint to Matthew, and Jack..in the off-season, people DO get fired.

Mike said...

L-Girl: Thanks for the clarification! Thought the 9/11 Movie reference would be a good joke to answer your question with the word "evidence" in it.

L-girl said...

Thought the 9/11 Movie reference would be a good joke to answer your question with the word "evidence" in it.

Ha! Excellent, and I didn't even get it. Duh.

Note to self: be sure to check identity of commenter before responding...

Jack Marshall said...

Peter: They do indeed get fired, but the people who get fired should be the ones who did a lousy job, particularly if they have done a great job in the recent past. The Sox led the majors in offense three years running under Jackson, and then he gets fired when they it has one off year when the team gets hit with an injury plague in August. Ridiculous.

Jere: I'd attribute the power fall-off to the wrist problems, wouldn't you? And who cares about strike-outs if you bat .300? I sure don't. As for Arroyo-Pena, if you mean that, as it turned out, Arroyo would have been more valuable to the Sox this year than Wily Mo, I couldn't disagree. But Arroyo was still a sub-.500 pitcher after June 15, did not turn into a star, and is a year older. I'd make that trade again this winter, and I bet Theo would too.