tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post112256397423740793..comments2024-03-15T23:25:52.517-07:00Comments on the joy of sox: Mannyallanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1122744652827880722005-07-30T10:30:00.000-07:002005-07-30T10:30:00.000-07:00Redsock: Oh, please...when argument fails, play th...Redsock: Oh, please...when argument fails, play the race card. How juvenile. You want more racial diversity in my two groups: Fine. Black centerfielder who "got it": Willy Mays. White centerfielder who didn't: Mickey Mantle. White centerfielder who did: Joe Dimaggio.<BR/>White leftfielder who didn't: Ted Williams. Black leftfielder who didn't: Jim Rice. Black Yankee greats who do: Jeter, Williams. White Yankee great who didn't: Babe Ruth.<BR/><BR/>And Yaz loafed until he was about 24, then HE LEARNED. That was my point.<BR/><BR/>To clarify what should have been obvious first time around: yes, an employee's value is based on a balance of pluses and minuses, and thus an averege worker will get sacked for relatively minor infractions because he or she can be replaced with someone just as good who beheves better. BUT...the same misconduct, bad attitude or bad work habits are more damaging and thus greater negatives when they are done by an employee who is more vital to the organization...a star.. and more visible and influencial. Thus they desrve more criticism for it, and the true impact of their conduct has to be evaluated in that light...by who is doing it, and its consequential impact.<BR/>And that IS how the world works.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1122739121885488172005-07-30T08:58:00.000-07:002005-07-30T08:58:00.000-07:00as a leader and a star he is NOT supposed to take ...<I>as a leader and a star he is NOT supposed to take advantage of that</I><BR/><BR/>But that is not the way the world works. It is not the way the world has ever worked. And I'm fairly confident that it is not the way the world will work in the future.<BR/><BR/>To expect otherwise is silly.<BR/><BR/>And to dole out criticism based on salary is also silly. So someone making the minimum -- say Youkilis, just to use an example -- can fuck up right and left without much consequence?<BR/><BR/>The impact on the game in question is a much better barometer to use.<BR/><BR/>And I don't think you really answered the question. You tossed it off after saying you disagreed with the premise.<BR/><BR/>******<BR/><BR/><I>Fisk, Yaz, Evans,Schilling, Wakefield and Veritek get it; guys like Boggs, Canseco, Pedro,and Manny...and an awful lot of otherwise astute fans... don't.</I><BR/><BR/>But you just said that "Carl Yastrezemski used to loaf on grounders" -- so apparently he didn't get it?<BR/><BR/>And I can't let this observation pass:<BR/><BR/>Fisk, Yaz, Evans, Schilling, Wakefield and Veritek [<I>sic</I>]: all white guys<BR/><BR/>Boggs, Canseco, Pedro, and Manny: 3 out of 4 are not white guys.<BR/><BR/>I'm making no comment on what is in your mind, but it's lists like this that I would point to as a possible example of how thoughts about race influence how we see the game and its players.<BR/><BR/>It is very subtle, but it happens way too often for me to believe it doesn't exist.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1122738321834493312005-07-30T08:45:00.000-07:002005-07-30T08:45:00.000-07:00Redsock: Here's the answer to your goddamned quest...Redsock: Here's the answer to your goddamned question (though I reject its premise...Manny does more of this stuff than anyone on the current team):<BR/>A superstar is a team leader whether he likes it or not; a 20 million dollar player's actions have infinitely more impact on the team than any thing a back-up catcher does. His productivity allows him to get away with more misconduct and on-field blunders (Manny, for example, would not be traded for the kind of confrontation with his manager that got Jay Payton shipped to Oakland), but as a leader and a star he is NOT supposed to take advantage of that. Leaders and stars always should be held to higher standards than the rank-and-file, not the same, and certainly not lower. Smart corporations fire CEOs for things that lower managers would only be reprimanded for (see Boeing). It's worse for Barry Bonds to be using steroids than Alex Sanchez. It's worse for the Mayor of DC to be caught using coke than some kid on the street. It's worse for a President to "lie about sex" than for Jude Law. Carl Yastrezemski used to loaf on grounders until he realized that what he did was magnified, and hurt the team more.<BR/> <BR/>THAT's the answer, and it's a pretty well established organizational principle. Fisk, Yaz, Evans,Schilling, Wakefield and Veritek get it; guys like Boggs, Canseco, Pedro,and Manny...and an awful lot of otherwise astute fans... don't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1122656695152016482005-07-29T10:04:00.000-07:002005-07-29T10:04:00.000-07:00Comparing players on an MLB team to the people who...Comparing players on an MLB team to the people who work in a bank or are in the military is riduculous.<BR/><BR/>Every year there's a game where 'we need Manny' and he still gets a day off anyway. Whatevah. It's not worth getting in a twist about to me.Legacy Userhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02192903054916418773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1122653147181864482005-07-29T09:05:00.000-07:002005-07-29T09:05:00.000-07:00World Champs need to act like champs, and Manny ne...<I>World Champs need to act like champs, and Manny never has, and never will.</I><BR/><BR/>That sentence is internally inconsistent.<BR/><BR/>Now, Jack, <B>answer my goddamn question</B>:<BR/><BR/>If Manny Ramirez and Teammate X do the exactly same stupid things -- and Manny Ramirez is a way better hitter than Teammate X -- why does Manny Ramirez get so much more shit for his actions than Teammate X does?allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1122651196848043592005-07-29T08:33:00.000-07:002005-07-29T08:33:00.000-07:00These comments make one wonder if anyone here has ...These comments make one wonder if anyone here has actually managed or worked in an organization. Do banks tolerate officers who won't help out on the teller line during a personnel shortage because they're "really good at making loans"? Will the military put up with a GI who refuses to follow orders, because he's a such a good shot? Stars are leaders and role models whether they want to be or not, and their behavior builds a culture that either helps an organization succeed or undermines it. Those who use their talent and stardom to act up, demand special privileges and behave unprofessionally erode team play and ultimately wreck it. Why do you think Kevin Kennedy hasn't managed since he let Canseco make his own rules and encouraged Clemens to become a diva? He never comprehended this principle, but those who run most teams do.<BR/> What if Curt Schilling had refused to pitch in the play-offs last year? He sure needed a day off, didn't he? (And don't tell me Manny's refusal to play doesn't matter because it's July..one dumb loss against the D-Rays could easily cost the Sox a play-off berth.) Schilling's team-centered conduct sent one message to his mates about how you win, and Manny's sends another. And it has real negative effects, no matter how many runs he knocks in. Having your number one offensive player assume a "Who cares?" approach to winning is destructive; it's the reason the Sox put Manny on waivers in 2003, and it's the reason the Sox will and should trade him if they can get anything close to a fair trade. <BR/>Last year's "idiot" culture protected Manny (whom I have long suspected of really being an idiot, or at least a case of arrested emotional development who could not funtion successfully in any environment but professional sports), but the team's chemistry is different now. World Champs need to act like champs, and Manny never has, and never will. Pointing out that Doug Mirabelli makes base-running blunders too is missing the point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1122582357063664182005-07-28T13:25:00.000-07:002005-07-28T13:25:00.000-07:00Oy. I am so sick of all the "brushfires" going ar...Oy. I am so sick of all the "brushfires" going around this team. And disgraced by seeing so many fans overreact to these sorts of things.<BR/><BR/>I really doubt that we know the entire story behind why Manny needed a day off. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't annoyed when I first heard about it, but in the end...if getting that extra day off will help him continue to hit homers and collect RBI all the way through September, than he can have it. Unless Manny decides to pull a Gary Sheffield and deliberately not play well just to get traded, then I don't see the point in raging about all this. Manny is Manny. Love him or hate him, the guy still goes out there and plays the game, and plays it well. And he's an important part of the Sox offense.<BR/><BR/>Please let this all die down when the trading deadline's passed. This is supposed to be baseball, not a soap opera.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1122566293126681822005-07-28T08:58:00.000-07:002005-07-28T08:58:00.000-07:00The latest Manny being Manny go round does not rea...The latest Manny being Manny go round does not really bother me. We go through this kind of stuff at least once every year. <BR/><BR/>I take a lot of it with a grain of salt too. The written press and radio go out of their way to stoke the flames. Manny helps them sell a lot of ads.<BR/><BR/>On a side note, I just started reading your blog and I like it a lot. Thanks!Legacy Userhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02192903054916418773noreply@blogger.com