tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post2830892948462073852..comments2024-03-15T23:25:52.517-07:00Comments on the joy of sox: My Obsessionallanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-25616602390675179252008-03-01T11:56:00.000-08:002008-03-01T11:56:00.000-08:00Redsock: I will check it out. I have not been back...Redsock: <BR/><BR/>I will check it out. I have not been back to that post recently to read comments.mugrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16523894323925888505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-52127600258021367242008-03-01T10:01:00.000-08:002008-03-01T10:01:00.000-08:00i'm just amazed at how roger seems to have convinc...<I>i'm just amazed at how roger seems to have convince himself that he's innocent (sort of like OJ)</I><BR/><BR/>It's the Costanza Defense:<BR/><BR/>"It's not a lie if you believe it."allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-18691501530597937612008-03-01T09:54:00.000-08:002008-03-01T09:54:00.000-08:009Casey: I agree, absolutely. These millionaires ge...9Casey: I agree, absolutely. These millionaires get guys like McNamee to do their dirty work, the little guy goes to jail or on food stamps, and unless the player is a moron and perjures himself, the worst he'll get is a huge pension, an endless supply of stock investment income, and a delayed admission into the Hall of Fame. It is rotten and cruel. But it has always been thus...Jack Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12129607755816264057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-86963453853080459572008-03-01T09:13:00.000-08:002008-03-01T09:13:00.000-08:00Jack Marshall said... McNamee is accountable for ...Jack Marshall said... <BR/> McNamee is accountable for his own actions.<BR/><BR/><BR/>To be fair and Honest .no I did not read the whole 409 page mitchell report.....But with that said .McNamee in the long run is the only one who will lose everyhing from this debacle.so don't think and speak like he is going unpunished.....Some how or another Clemens still puts a uniform on everyday and will always be a millionaire and Brian Mac will always be looked at as a scumbbag drug dealer without a pot to piss in....Macnamee could not a job in professional baseball ever again and yet Clemens is throwing batting practice......Someone has to stop that.....9caseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14214364466933716867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-40658141647733651512008-03-01T08:57:00.000-08:002008-03-01T08:57:00.000-08:00i can't get enough of this story. i'm just amazed ...i can't get enough of this story. i'm just amazed at how roger seems to have convince himself that he's innocent (sort of like OJ). he's obviously lying and his legacy is forever tarnished.tist724https://www.blogger.com/profile/07494412005191445741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-52817659253256513652008-03-01T08:06:00.000-08:002008-03-01T08:06:00.000-08:00it really is admirable that you have the considera...<I>it really is admirable that you have the consideration to inquire of your on-line community's preferences regarding content</I><BR/><BR/>I don't understand how asking a question of people I converse with on a near-daily basis is deserving of admiration, but whatever. ... Plus I never said I'd do what the majority of readers wanted!<BR/><BR/>mugro: I asked some questions at the end of the political discussion. maybe you missed it or maybe you're ignoring it, but I'd like to hear your opinion. If not, not.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-16394073303865345982008-03-01T06:46:00.000-08:002008-03-01T06:46:00.000-08:00Bring it on! The more news about the Texas Conman ...Bring it on! <BR/><BR/>The more news about the Texas Conman the better. <BR/><BR/>And, as Jack Marshall said, thanks for asking. That makes up for some of your insane political statements. :)mugrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16523894323925888505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-66844889407276504112008-03-01T04:44:00.000-08:002008-03-01T04:44:00.000-08:00He was asked by his wealthy employers to obtain dr...<I>He was asked by his wealthy employers to obtain drugs and shoot them up</I><BR/><BR/>Not unlike how the players' even wealthier employers (and their union) looked the other way while they were all shooting up, since the results were so beneficial to the game, that is, profitable.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-39457238448544751762008-02-29T22:15:00.000-08:002008-02-29T22:15:00.000-08:009casey: Did you READ the Mitchell report? Guys lik...9casey: Did you READ the Mitchell report? Guys like McNamee hung out around AIDs clinics and bought HGH from desperately sick people. They are infinitely worse than pot-pushers by any yardstick. And please---don't brandish that "if they hadn't done it, someone else would have" rationalization---they tried that at the Nuremberg Trials too, you know. McNamee is accountable for his own actions. Someone else would have broken the law for cash if he hadn't? How does that make him less of a slime-ball? What's the theory---your illegal conduct makes you less of a slimeball in direct proportion to the number of RESERVE slimeballs lurking in the shadows? By that logic, you should step into the shoes of any crook making money in an extensive criminal network---after all, if you don't do it, someone else will. <BR/><BR/>Come on.That kind of thinking is bad for you and everyone else.Jack Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12129607755816264057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-84620743299905721302008-02-29T20:28:00.000-08:002008-02-29T20:28:00.000-08:00Jack Marshall said... I hate drugs, and I hate to...Jack Marshall said... <BR/> I hate drugs, and I hate to see baseball infected with the likes of Brian MacNamee so the likes of Roger Clemens can keep auctioning himself for millions until he's 45.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Wow, you make Macnamme sound like pusher selling pot down by the schoolyard...I'm not sure it was ever his intention to get these clowns to do these things......<BR/>He was asked by his wealthy employers to obtain drugs and shoot them up...And if he didn't do it someone else would have....9caseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14214364466933716867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-67134501900557586852008-02-29T15:21:00.000-08:002008-02-29T15:21:00.000-08:00Z-I knew Clemens would be named in the Mitchell Re...Z-I knew Clemens would be named in the Mitchell Report...I was sure of it. Even so, it felt like a blow to the gut. The fact that he, his legacy and his accomplishments are stained by all this gives me no pleasure at all.It's terrible for baseball, sports, fans, kids, and my digestion. I hate drugs, and I hate to see baseball infected with the likes of Brian MacNamee so the likes of Roger Clemens can keep auctioning himself for millions until he's 45.<BR/><BR/>But it would not have given me more pleasure if he got away with everything while Barry Bonds was being (rightly) pilloried. Clemens has earned this ordeal, and it is just that he have to endure it. Justice, even imperfect, incomplete, flawed justice, doesn't make me happy, exactly---Carlton Fisk jumping up and down as the ball hits the pole makes me happy. But it makes me hopeful.Jack Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12129607755816264057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-61632640760926678592008-02-29T15:18:00.000-08:002008-02-29T15:18:00.000-08:00Roger is a special case. If he had admitted his us...<I>Roger is a special case. If he had admitted his use right away, I'd have roasted him a bit, but then moved on as he faded away. If he was out of the news, I'd likely never mention him.</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, I would have roasted him A LOT, gloating at the headlines and back pages. But once they stopped, I imagine my party would have stopped too. And life would have gone on.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-88402063362379991612008-02-29T15:16:00.000-08:002008-02-29T15:16:00.000-08:00why it is you can wish FB's ruin so implacably whi...<I>why it is you can wish FB's ruin so implacably while defending Bonds?</I><BR/><BR/>I don't hate Bonds. I've had nothing but pure hate and disgust for Clemens for more than a decade.<BR/><BR/>That's pretty much it. <BR/><BR/>I'd rather players didn't cheat in sports, but they do. They always have and they always will. Hoping for sports without cheating is like hoping for human perfection. It simply isn't possible.<BR/><BR/>So Bonds cheated and lied? Okay, he did. Next. <BR/><BR/>I may make fun of Giambi, but I don't care much about him and his drug use either. <BR/><BR/>Roger is a special case. If he had admitted his use right away, I'd have roasted him a bit, but then moved on as he faded away. If he was out of the news, I'd likely never mention him.<BR/><BR/>But the dumbass thinks he can get away with it -- and watching him stumble and fail at every single turn is pure joy.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-35436625476273725052008-02-29T15:13:00.000-08:002008-02-29T15:13:00.000-08:00outsized accomplishments and undersized characterW...<I>outsized accomplishments and undersized character</I><BR/><BR/>Well said!!laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-75505128791754921962008-02-29T15:05:00.000-08:002008-02-29T15:05:00.000-08:00But I don't get an ounce of pleasure out of it and...<I>But I don't get an ounce of pleasure out of it and have some trouble understanding why some of you do.</I><BR/><BR/>I can never get an answer to this. I look forward to reading what others have to say to Zen's comment.<BR/><BR/><I>I love baseball but don't particularly find even extraordinary performance in to be heroic. </I><BR/><BR/>I was saying this at home the other day. I don't get the whole "sports hero" thing. Unless we're using the word hero in a very devalued way - any person who we like or whose actions bring us joy? <BR/><BR/>I tremendously admire great sports performances, but I never understand why they are called heroic. My idea of what makes a hero is very different.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-4180259916529484002008-02-29T15:03:00.000-08:002008-02-29T15:03:00.000-08:00Like anyone who's played for the Sox, he will alwa...Like anyone who's played for the Sox, he will always be interesting to Boston fans. Given his outsized accomplishments and undersized character, he generates more interest than average.johngoldfinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09322562737172405323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1008190166738140612008-02-29T14:55:00.000-08:002008-02-29T14:55:00.000-08:00It's news, Clemens is a prominent former Sock -- i...It's news, Clemens is a prominent former Sock -- it belongs on the blog in the eyes this reader and community member.<BR/><BR/>I don't care to rehash the 1986 WS, but I do want to look back to that summer. A big baseball fan as a child, I only became interested again as a teenager in 1986 because of the excitement of the Red Sox run. I watched whole games again for the first time in four or five years. And a lot of that was due to Roger's awesome performance that summer -- I think of myself as a typcial fan in this regard.<BR/><BR/>As a fan, I try to insulate myself from players' statements and expressions of egotism, so if Clemens said one thing and did another when he left the Red Sox, I didn't concentrate so much on that. I felt more anger at the Sox organization when Clemens did so well in Toronto. Perhaps not anger; maybe a certain vindication that they made a mistake. I always like to see former Sox do well.<BR/><BR/>Today -- Jack Marshall's 12 points are all very well taken -- I'm at the point at which Clemens's assholity has poked through that insulation. I certainly believe he's lying and want to see justice served. But I don't get an ounce of pleasure out of it and have some trouble understanding why some of you do. I would not say this guy was ever really my hero -- I love baseball but don't particularly find even extraordinary performance in to be heroic. But he did, almost singlehandedly, bring me back into the game. Why would I feel happy about his self-inflicted fall? It's tragic. At this point I want him to get nailed the way I want to see MacBeth go down -- the tragic inevitability of it. But it doesn't cause me any joy. He was the best, and that's been lost.<BR/><BR/>My enjoyment of the game is intact as is my insulation against player remarks and personalities (Wakefield loves Bush? let me stick my fingers back in my ears...) But another figure that rubbed through that insulation over the years that I feel the same way towards is Barry Bonds. And I can't help but ask you, Allan, why it is you can wish FB's ruin so implacably while defending Bonds? Not to conflate your point of view with hers, but didn't Bonds do as l-girl said Clemens did: over-reach, be unable to face his decline?<BR/><BR/>Perhaps you think the Asshole Quotient isn't there in Bonds's case. I do; I hoped he gets nailed to the wall as well.Zenslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06040836002694584468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-41493695287980924562008-02-29T10:24:00.000-08:002008-02-29T10:24:00.000-08:00Pretty sure the blow's already been taken at this ...Pretty sure the blow's already been taken at this point.Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00421785398444449007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-43387246241983925462008-02-29T09:00:00.000-08:002008-02-29T09:00:00.000-08:00No, not "now" and certainly not "because" of Cleme...No, not "now" and certainly not "because" of Clemens. It just would be (is?) another blow that is hard to take. <BR/><BR/>Except for, of course the possibility that Pedro could earn another Cy out of this - that would be a nice twist.<BR/><BR/>Jeffsparkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03173898236166413567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-38812557565814867062008-02-29T08:37:00.000-08:002008-02-29T08:37:00.000-08:00I am not a fan of his but I SO want him to be inno...<I>I am not a fan of his but I SO want him to be innocent simply because of what it could do to the collective faith in baseball. </I><BR/><BR/>And you don't think that's done already? There are people who still imagine baseball is somehow shielded from the issues that affect every other aspect of society? <BR/><BR/>We've been hearing about hitters using steroids for years and years, including the greatest hitter of our time. But *now* the "collective faith" in baseball will be shaken, because of Clemens?laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-17925903604374445942008-02-29T08:23:00.000-08:002008-02-29T08:23:00.000-08:00Off-topic, I know, but I DON'T blame Buckner, not ...Off-topic, I know, but I DON'T blame Buckner, not one bit. Rich Gedman was immobile, a slug: Doug Mirabelli would have stuck Stanley's pitch in his hip pocket. And Steamer should have been brought in to close the game from the start: he was unhittable in that Series, and Calvin looked like a deer in the headlights the whole post-season. And if Roger had a pair, he would have been in to relieve Hurst in Game 7, not Al (Why Am I Here?) Nipper. MacNamara? He's standing neck deep in a ring of flaming John Kruk-droppings in my Sox Managers Hell, along with Grady, Zimmer,and Eddie Kasko....Jack Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12129607755816264057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-14614830758012129812008-02-29T08:10:00.000-08:002008-02-29T08:10:00.000-08:00My $0.02 worth is that even bad guys can be good f...My $0.02 worth is that even bad guys can be good for baseball. By all accounts, he's not a great guy but we can't deny his accomplishments are unreal. I am not a fan of his but I SO want him to be innocent simply because of what it could do to the collective faith in baseball. Interesting note is that one of the years he won the Cy Young (coincidentally a year that he is alleged to be using), Pedro came in 2nd.<BR/><BR/>To answer the question, I say keep posting on him as long as it doesn't cut into posts about the Sox. But it IS, after all your blog.<BR/><BR/>Jeffsparkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03173898236166413567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-41003435572398288872008-02-29T07:53:00.000-08:002008-02-29T07:53:00.000-08:00There actually is something that interests me abou...There actually is something that interests me about this story, but it's more like a historical or literary perspective. Or something, I can't quite categorize it. <BR/><BR/>The former hero being exposed as a cheat - the very talented person who over-reached, because he couldn't live with the decline of his own talents, and sowed the seeds of his own demise - the spectacular fall from grace (the higher they come, the harder they fall)... <BR/><BR/>These are classic themes, repeated throughout history. Countless books, movies, plays and epic poems have been written on them.<BR/><BR/>I feel no personal stake in the Clemens's desmise (either sadness or glee), but on some level, it is a fascinating story.<BR/><BR/>Jack's note about "the king can do no wrong" is part of that, too.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-74808695691977970102008-02-29T07:47:00.000-08:002008-02-29T07:47:00.000-08:00"leaving his team to the mercy of Johnny Mac dull ..."leaving his team to the mercy of Johnny Mac dull brain, Calvin Schiraldi's rookie nerves, and Rich Gedman's immobile thighs.."<BR/><BR/>Have we all got so used to blaming everyone but Buckner that he's now not getting ANY of the blame.... Look, everybody helped the team get that far that year, and a bunch did individual things in that game that costs us the series, basically. Can't we just leave it at that?<BR/><BR/>Okay, now all four of my obsessions has been brought up in this thread: Hating Clemens, NESN excludes Fairfield County, the original, British Office, is better, although the American is okay, too, and finally, defending Rich Gedman. <BR/><BR/>Good night, everybody!Jerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13448619048422750447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-56854706858018426252008-02-29T07:28:00.000-08:002008-02-29T07:28:00.000-08:00"What I've done for baseball"...the ultimate "The ..."What I've done for baseball"...the ultimate "The King Can Do No Wrong" argument. Insideous and undemocratic as hell---it argues that your accountability for wrong doing is proportional to your "value" to society. And lots of people buy it---that's why guys like Rocket keep saying it. Just one more way sports chatter seeps into the brain and destroys the soul. Yeah, Roger, and just think: if you had FOUR hundred wins, you'd get a free bank robbery! Ass-hole.Jack Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12129607755816264057noreply@blogger.com