tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post7926457191729706748..comments2024-03-15T23:25:52.517-07:00Comments on the joy of sox: G53: Yankees 9, Red Sox 5allanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comBlogger148125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-44653622531394506122007-06-02T14:10:00.000-07:002007-06-02T14:10:00.000-07:00redsock said... And personally, I'd throw W/L righ...redsock said... <I>And personally, I'd throw W/L right out the window. Use IP/start or something. </I><BR/><BR/>For you I'll actually break it down vs saying 33 in 6. As for the picking call it he who shall not be named itis. I know you weren't or at least I didn't take it that way, I just wanted to make sure that you guys knew that.<BR/><BR/>Also, if you remember earlier in the year when Tim, you etc were talking about Lester, that was one of my points I made about Lester needing seasoning, because he pitched so many 5 inning starts last year because of his pitch counts.s1chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012981832351433952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-88686041390465617192007-06-02T13:26:00.000-07:002007-06-02T13:26:00.000-07:00I certainly wasn't picking on you -- and the caree...I certainly wasn't picking on you -- and the career mark was something TV guys use all the time. I just question how much you can glean from those types of stats.<BR/><BR/>And personally, I'd throw W/L right out the window. Use IP/start or something.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-50025905878439164172007-06-02T12:50:00.000-07:002007-06-02T12:50:00.000-07:00Well, I see that you continued talking about this ...Well, I see that you continued talking about this while I was mowing the lawn. Sorry, about that but I was tired of the looking at my lawn being 1" + higher than my neighbors. <BR/><BR/>Fine, all of your points are good about them facing different batters etc. but last time I looked since the Pedro game the following players were on the Sox Varitek, Ramirez and Ortiz. Combined those three are 43 of 192. <BR/><BR/>Furthermore should we extend that logic to hitters. Why should I expect Manny to hit 35 HR's every year. After all, just because he did it last year, and the year before etc against different pitchers does that mean he is going to do it this year? <BR/><BR/>I say yes because that is what his history says he will hit and we haven't seen any steady decline. <BR/><BR/>As for the relevance, any stats that you use in my opinion are just starting points for discussion. Wins and losses for pitchers are only part of the story when talking about starters. How long do they last in the game, in Mussina's case my point was that since his 3 hit shutout at Fenway he averages just under 5 2/3 innings. 5 2/3 innings and he had 4 no decisions and 2 losses in those six games which means most of his starts were decided by the bullpen!<BR/><BR/>If he continues that trend today, then this becomes our bullpen against their bullpen. Which one would you choose?<BR/><BR/>As for the can't compare since 1991 I didn't compare all 24 starts. I just took the last six starts at Fenway (I was looking for a trend and #38 has only 8 starts so sample size is close). His 18 games before that he had a 2.94 ERA, isn't an ERA that has doubled significant? How about how WHIP is 1.72 in those six compared to 1.07 in the prior starts?<BR/><BR/>I want to be clear, I don't think stats are the be all to end end alls when it comes to baseball. If you look back I want to keep Gonzalez at SS this year, because I thought his glove added more value than Lugo's bat. I also don't think you are picking on me or anything else by dismissing the stats. To me they add value to my enjoyment of the game. Will Varitek continue his hot hitting vs Mussina (was like 2 for 48 is now 7 for 57 lifetime)? <BR/><BR/>Besides you got ten+ more comments and isn't that the name of the game? <BR/><BR/>I just thought that I would compare the two starting pitchers histories at Fenway.s1chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012981832351433952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-11322638324644729822007-06-02T10:17:00.000-07:002007-06-02T10:17:00.000-07:00Pitching in the Bronx and facing the 1991 Yankees ...<I>Pitching in the Bronx and facing the 1991 Yankees and the 1998 Yankees are clearly two very different clubs, both in players and talent. </I><BR/><BR/>Absolutely. I'm saying that if you wanted to see how a pitcher fared in one park vs another park, you wouldn't look at per park per team - just per park. And of course you shouldn't look at wins at all.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-58538352137989092812007-06-02T10:13:00.000-07:002007-06-02T10:13:00.000-07:00Certainly. Then I believe the relevant statistics ...<I>Certainly. Then I believe the relevant statistics should be the pitcher's performance (not wins) in a given ballpark overall, over time, not against specific teams.</I><BR/><BR/>Even that doesn't tell you much.<BR/><BR/>Pitching in the Bronx and facing the 1991 Yankees and the 1998 Yankees are clearly two very different clubs, both in players and talent.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-17573961535324628782007-06-02T10:11:00.000-07:002007-06-02T10:11:00.000-07:00And in that Sept. 2 game, Mussina also faced Dauba...And in that Sept. 2 game, Mussina also faced Daubach, Floyd, and Rey Sanchez. Those are part of the 5.88 ERA you mention.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-82533531057924724722007-06-02T10:10:00.000-07:002007-06-02T10:10:00.000-07:00ballparks do matter in pitchingCertainly. Then I b...<I> ballparks do matter in pitching</I><BR/><BR/>Certainly. Then I believe the relevant statistics should be the pitcher's performance (not wins) in a given ballpark overall, over time, not against specific teams. <BR/><BR/>Schilling at Fenway vs Schilling at Yankee Stadium vs Schilling elsewhere, and same for Mussina.<BR/><BR/>Mussina's numbers might be a bit more relevant because he's been in the AL his whole career, unlike Schilling.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-85658758116521484032007-06-02T10:04:00.000-07:002007-06-02T10:04:00.000-07:00Mussina's last win at Fenway was on 8/28/2002 (los...<I>Mussina's last win at Fenway was on 8/28/2002 (losing pitcher was Pedro). He pitched a 3 hit shut out in that game. Since then in six starts he has gone 33 2/3 innings with a 5.88 ERA and a WHIP with an 0-2 record.</I><BR/><BR/>Mussina's next start was also against Boston (September 2). But after that, his next appearance against the Sox was on <A HREF="http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA200305280.shtml" REL="nofollow">May 28, 2003</A>.<BR/><BR/>The Red Sox lineup included: Damon, Walker, Garciaparra, Millar, Hillenbrand, Mueller, Nixon. Those 7 guys are not on the team anymore.<BR/><BR/>So how is Mussina's performance that day (8 IP, 3 R) relevant to today's game?allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-34094374462892792982007-06-02T09:59:00.000-07:002007-06-02T09:59:00.000-07:00But in many of those games, the pitcher was not fa...But in many of those games, the pitcher was not facing the same hitters. "Against The Tigers" or "against the Reds" means nothing if it involves games over 3, 6, 10 years.<BR/><BR/>That's why when whoever says that Mussina is 19-15, 3.58 against the Red Sox, it is 101% meaningless. Those stats go back to 1991 -- when Dustin Pedroia was 7 years old.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-30339865322444634582007-06-02T09:47:00.000-07:002007-06-02T09:47:00.000-07:00The inane is sorta tongue in cheek, as for the las...The inane is sorta tongue in cheek, as for the last win against the Yankees for Schilling and Mussina at Fenway, ballparks do matter in pitching. Fenway has been a lot kinder to Schilling than he thought it would be. His home record as a Sox is 21 and 6, I think, but against the Yankees its 4 and 2?<BR/><BR/>As for Mussina, over his career he has no decisions about 20% of the time but vs the Sox in Fenway its around 30%. I just thought it was interesting that two quality border line HOF pitchers would struggle against these teams so much. <BR/><BR/>Makes me wonder if either one should be in the HOF, etc, etc.s1chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012981832351433952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-52032508049210666832007-06-02T09:30:00.000-07:002007-06-02T09:30:00.000-07:00Also, I did say that it was Inane statistical crap...<I>Also, I did say that it was Inane statistical crap. ;)</I><BR/><BR/>True, you did. :)<BR/><BR/>I assumed you were joking, but if you actually believe it to be inane crap, then I take back my question.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-38488047372962855332007-06-02T09:29:00.000-07:002007-06-02T09:29:00.000-07:00Yes, I meant today's game, G54. I'm not needling y...Yes, I meant today's game, G54. I'm not needling you, I'm actually asking.<BR/><BR/>How is Schilling's last win against the Yankees at Fenway relevant? I know people repeat these factoids, but I don't know what they mean, if anything.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-74004951883846515662007-06-02T08:39:00.000-07:002007-06-02T08:39:00.000-07:00L-girl said...Do you see this as relevant to today...L-girl said...<BR/><I>Do you see this as relevant to today's game - and how so?</I><BR/><BR/>Its not relevant to game 53, but it is relevant to game 54 (I thought I said that if not oops). Schilling and Mussina are the starters today (6/2) right? <BR/><BR/>Also, I did say that it was <I>Inane statistical crap</I>. ;)s1chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012981832351433952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-85501045045601889222007-06-02T08:27:00.000-07:002007-06-02T08:27:00.000-07:00The last time that Schilling beat the Yankees in F...<I>The last time that Schilling beat the Yankees in Fenway (3 starts ago) was on 5/22 2006 when he won his 199th game.<BR/><BR/>...<BR/><BR/>Mussina's last win at Fenway was on 8/28/2002</I><BR/><BR/>Do you see this as relevant to today's game - and how so?laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-33723641928922988572007-06-02T08:09:00.000-07:002007-06-02T08:09:00.000-07:00Well, I was looking at some of the figures fore ga...Well, I was looking at some of the figures fore game 54 this morning after work. Thought you might find this interesting. <BR/><BR/>The last time that Schilling beat the Yankees in Fenway (3 starts ago) was on 5/22 2006 when he won his 199th game. In two starts at Fenway since then he has pitched 14 innings with a 5.14 ERA and a WHIP of 1.14. The 5/22 game was his last decision vs the Yankees at Fenway.<BR/><BR/>Mussina's last win at Fenway was on 8/28/2002 (losing pitcher was Pedro). He pitched a 3 hit shut out in that game. Since then in six starts he has gone 33 2/3 innings with a 5.88 ERA and a WHIP with an 0-2 record. Only one of those games would be considered a quality start. His last start on 8/20/2006 he only went 4 innings (his shortest of the 6 starts).<BR/><BR/>Of course as usual more inane statistical crap at <A HREF="http://plls.blogspot.com/2007/06/rs07g54.html" REL="nofollow"> Peace, Love and Lots of Sox</A>s1chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012981832351433952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-33898608579789520962007-06-01T21:39:00.000-07:002007-06-01T21:39:00.000-07:00"longstanding anger"That is so 2003, Mr. AP.It sou..."<I>longstanding anger</I>"<BR/><BR/>That is so 2003, Mr. AP.<BR/><BR/>It sounded like people having fun to me. Just like they have fun doing it in the Bronx. Just like they have had fun doing it in every sports arena since the beginning of time.<BR/><BR/>But I guess that was a bit much for the bluehairs at the AP -- who obviously had never seen, attended or read about a Red Sox-Yankees game before.<BR/><BR/>Why do the least-qualified people get the most coveted jobs?allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-91537420566307632952007-06-01T21:15:00.000-07:002007-06-01T21:15:00.000-07:00now normally i'm a fan of yahoo sports' synopsis o...now normally i'm a fan of yahoo sports' synopsis of the game (the AP version), but <A HREF="http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=AomndDThQWRwU7YkPUjsFRMRvLYF?gid=270601102" REL="nofollow">tonight's recap</A> left a sour taste in my mouth (after i puked a little in it)<BR/><BR/>i dunno i just got a real bad vibe from it. clearly a much pro-yankees writer who did this one. i've never been so disgusted with the quality of the recap as i was tonight. i didnt see the game, and this outright bashing of the Red Sox/the fans/fenway is disgraceful. the AP can go fuck itself.timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12041184236514293677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-17119948816304459452007-06-01T20:37:00.000-07:002007-06-01T20:37:00.000-07:00TrailBlazer said... I hope I am not the only that ...<I>TrailBlazer said... <BR/>I hope I am not the only that thinks Wakefield totally sucks!</I><BR/><BR/>Going into tonight's game, he was without a doubt our second best starter.<BR/><BR/>ERA+<BR/>Beckett - 168<BR/>Wakefield - 133<BR/>Schilling - 121<BR/>Matsuzaka - 92<BR/>Tavarez - 82allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-84736145809216784412007-06-01T20:19:00.000-07:002007-06-01T20:19:00.000-07:00and bobbing his head while sitting next to that hu...and bobbing his head while sitting next to that huge pedro bobblehead doll.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-8040986106381273412007-06-01T20:18:00.000-07:002007-06-01T20:18:00.000-07:00gotta be more than that. it's still 9-3. one ball ...gotta be more than that. <BR/><BR/>it's still 9-3. one ball to manny and mattingly comes wandering out.<BR/><BR/>why not see if villone can get outs? can always bring him in later. highly odd.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-71412251660752101222007-06-01T20:17:00.000-07:002007-06-01T20:17:00.000-07:00I'd buy 2 copies of that DVD -- but it should also...<I>I'd buy 2 copies of that DVD -- but it should also have his great catches (Cairo!), throws, and various other alert things (telling the Rockies 1B that his coach was trying to signal to him to play off the bag). </I><BR/><BR/>It's gotta have the double pointing, coming out with the fan's sign (MBM), "Jeter's playing golf, this is better", and lots and lots and lots of great hits.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-26796241266608407912007-06-01T20:16:00.001-07:002007-06-01T20:16:00.001-07:006 run lead w/ two outs to go and the Yankees can't...6 run lead w/ two outs to go and the Yankees can't trust their bullpen, bringing in Mo. Amazing.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-89672115004262722532007-06-01T20:16:00.000-07:002007-06-01T20:16:00.000-07:00WTF?Mattingly pulling Villone after 2 pitches and ...WTF?<BR/><BR/>Mattingly pulling Villone after 2 pitches and bringing in Rivera???<BR/><BR/>WTF???allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-86164266923874498552007-06-01T20:07:00.000-07:002007-06-01T20:07:00.000-07:00Hey, Yook, rip off one of Dumbo's ears and eat it!...Hey, Yook, rip off one of Dumbo's ears and eat it!!!allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-67475693168738633222007-06-01T20:06:00.000-07:002007-06-01T20:06:00.000-07:00here we go!!!here we go!!!allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.com