tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post116391478901312200..comments2024-03-25T10:19:58.493-07:00Comments on the joy of sox: AL MVP?allanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1164138064729371182006-11-21T11:41:00.000-08:002006-11-21T11:41:00.000-08:00Morneau it is!Not a bad choice. Kinda relieved it ...Morneau it is!<BR/><BR/>Not a bad choice. Kinda relieved it wasn't Jeter...average ain't everything.Zenslingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06040836002694584468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1164120314538048822006-11-21T06:45:00.000-08:002006-11-21T06:45:00.000-08:00I'm wondering if a better Top 6 -- taking fielding...I'm wondering if a better Top 6 -- taking fielding into account, thus upping Mauer and dropping Manny (who is not as bad as many people think, but still limited) -- might not be:<BR/><BR/>Hafner<BR/>Ortiz<BR/>Mauer<BR/>Santana<BR/>Ramirez<BR/>Jeter<BR/><BR/>I could probably come up with a plausible different list every day.<BR/><BR/>We will see what the esteemed gang at the BBWAA comes up with.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163996629224062052006-11-19T20:23:00.000-08:002006-11-19T20:23:00.000-08:00That's like an ice cream man named Cone!That's like an ice cream man named Cone!Jerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13448619048422750447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163968164176596652006-11-19T12:29:00.000-08:002006-11-19T12:29:00.000-08:00"Cantstandya!"<I>"Cantstandya!"</I>laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163967310269589052006-11-19T12:15:00.000-08:002006-11-19T12:15:00.000-08:00JoyBoyBookman: Well, let me tell you something, fu...<I>JoyBoy</I><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheLibrary.htm" REL="nofollow">Bookman</A>: Well, let me tell you something, funny boy. Y'know that little stamp, the one that says "New York Public Library"? Well that may not mean anything to you, but that means a lot to me. One whole hell of a lot. Sure, go ahead, laugh if you want to. I've seen your type before: Flashy, making the scene, flaunting convention. Yeah, I know what you're thinking. What's this guy making such a big stink about old library books? Well, let me give you a hint, junior. Maybe we can live without libraries, people like you and me. Maybe. Sure, we're too old to change the world, but what about that kid, sitting down, opening a book, right now, in a branch at the local library and finding drawings of pee-pees and wee-wees on the Cat in the Hat and the Five Chinese Brothers? Doesn't HE deserve better? Look. If you think this is about overdue fines and missing books, you'd better think again. This is about that kid's right to read a book without getting his mind warped! Or: maybe that turns you on, Seinfeld; maybe that's how y'get your kicks. You and your good-time buddies. Well I got a flash for ya, joy-boy: Party time is over. Y'got seven days, Seinfeld. That is one week!allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163965986373840092006-11-19T11:53:00.000-08:002006-11-19T11:53:00.000-08:00A two-sport athelete! Wait... there's another spor...<I> A two-sport athelete! </I><BR/><BR/>Wait... there's another sport?laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163964343308807122006-11-19T11:25:00.000-08:002006-11-19T11:25:00.000-08:00Did anyone see Jeter on the sidelines at the Michi...Did anyone see Jeter on the sidelines at the Michigan-Ohio State game yesterday? You're not gonna believe this, but he actually clapped in an effort to make his team do better--just like he does in baseball! A two-sport athelete! He should get the MVP for that alone! (And for that one dive from like two years ago...)Jerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13448619048422750447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163962170122001552006-11-19T10:49:00.000-08:002006-11-19T10:49:00.000-08:00What would've made it perfect is if, at the end, y...<I> What would've made it perfect is if, at the end, you'd just listed your top 4 :) </I><BR/><BR/>But then I'd have more of a case. This way he can still claim he's not biased. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163961616361165712006-11-19T10:40:00.000-08:002006-11-19T10:40:00.000-08:00Praise you, JoyBoy. Post of the century. 99.5% Per...Praise you, JoyBoy. Post of the century. 99.5% Perfect. What would've made it perfect is if, at the end, you'd just listed your top 4 :)Jerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13448619048422750447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163958305727672812006-11-19T09:45:00.000-08:002006-11-19T09:45:00.000-08:00Papelbon was the most valuable Red Sox player for ...<I> Papelbon was the most valuable Red Sox player for most of this season </I><BR/><BR/>He's my pick for Red Sox MVP. I wanted him to win ROY, even though I knew he wouldn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163958203000507462006-11-19T09:43:00.000-08:002006-11-19T09:43:00.000-08:00I didn't say he was the MVP. But if you voted for ...<I>I didn't say he was the MVP. But if you voted for him, I wouldn't call you insane. </I><BR/><BR/>I totally take back that whoa. I already knew this much.<BR/><BR/>I stand by my original statement.<BR/><BR/>Which should in no way be construed as meaning I believe Jeter deserves the 2006 MVP!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163957470285193522006-11-19T09:31:00.000-08:002006-11-19T09:31:00.000-08:00We know that each and every writer with a vote goe...<I>We know that each and every writer with a vote goes through a similar exercise.<BR/><BR/>Back to reality,</I><BR/><BR/>:-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163957369192235042006-11-19T09:29:00.000-08:002006-11-19T09:29:00.000-08:00And with that Mauer bit, I said he was more valuab...And with that Mauer bit, I said he was more valuable than Jeter, both at the plate and as a fielder ... so why isn't he on my Top 5 list?<BR/><BR/>Hmmm.<BR/><BR/>------------------<BR/><BR/>Bonus Tracks!<BR/> <BR/>Alex Rodriguez and Mike Myers <A HREF="http://www.courant.com/sports/baseball/redsox/hc-soxside918.artsep18,0,1139749.story?coll=hc-redsox-headlines" REL="nofollow">think</A> Johnny Damon should be considered for MVP.<BR/><BR/>A-Rod: "I'll tell you, he's had an MVP-type year. We also have Jeter as having an MVP-type year. Both those guys. He's changed the team this year. He's changed our team. ... Johnny's helped everybody, one through nine. He's just been an unbelievable influence on this team."<BR/><BR/>Myers: "What Johnny does to that lineup in that spot playing in center field, that's more valuable than what has happened just in one year on the field, all the intangibles that Johnny brings. ... He's uplifted this team in more ways than any reporter will ever know."<BR/><BR/>***<BR/><BR/>In mid-September, Tim McCarver told the New York Daily News:<BR/>"A month ago, I didn't think anyone would beat out David. I thought he had overcome not playing a defensive position, which is hard to do. [Now] I give a slight edge to Dye. When the dust settles, Dye may be ahead of Jeter and Ortiz. And you've got to throw Morneau in it, though he won't win. But if Morneau was playing in New York and Jeter in Minnesota, Morneau would be the favorite. If Dye were in New York, he'd be the favorite."<BR/><BR/>An AL scout: "[Dye's] been the most important player, the reason they are still in it. He provides offense and he's had a great defensive year. If it was just offense, it'd be Ortiz. Jeter will get some support from outside New York, but he's got a $200-million supporting cast. So he gets hits. Why wasn't Wade Boggs MVP five times if it's all about hits?"<BR/><BR/>***<BR/><BR/>Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun <A HREF="http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Columnists/Elliott_Bob/2006/10/01/1930202.html" REL="nofollow">picked</A> Justin Morneau.<BR/><BR/>"On June 8, he was hitting .236 with 38 RBIs and the Twins owned a 25-33 record. Since then, Morneau has hit .369 with 91 RBIs as the Twins went 68-30 to clinch a playoff berth. The other top contender — and three weeks ago he was our winner — is Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter."<BR/><BR/>Elliott's ballot: Morneau, Jeter, Frank Thomas, Ortiz, Dye, Magglio Ordonez, Santana, Hafner, Rodriguez, Cano.<BR/><BR/>***<BR/><BR/>Finally from <A HREF="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/mark_bechtel/05/19/bechtel.scorecard/index.html" REL="nofollow">SI</A>, May 19, 2006:<BR/><BR/>Most overrated MLB stars<BR/><BR/>A recent poll in SI asked major league players to name the most overrated player in the game. The winner, by a fairly decent margin, was Derek Jeter, which has sparked outrage from fans and observers. <BR/><BR/>So it got me thinking: Who is the most overrated player? ... <BR/><BR/>But what are those intangibles really worth? (OK, I know that "intangible" means that they can't be quantified since they're not tangible, but cut me some slack.) How many wins is "being good in the clubhouse" worth? To me, the most instructive thing about Jeter winning this unpopularity contest is that it shows that big leaguers don't buy the argument that being good in the clubhouse is an incredibly valuable asset. They're the ones who voted, so clearly not all of them think that the little things D.J. -- or anyone? -- brings to the table are as important as fans and sportswriters do. And they'd know a little better than we would, wouldn't they?allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163957063410290272006-11-19T09:24:00.000-08:002006-11-19T09:24:00.000-08:00There were a lot of good hitting seasons this year...<I>There were a lot of good hitting seasons this year -- good arguments to make for many players.</I><BR/><BR/>Further thought: your choice really depends on your definition of MVP.<BR/><BR/><I>Whoa.</I><BR/><BR/>I didn't say he <I>was</I> the MVP. But if you voted for him, I wouldn't call you insane.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163956957932197072006-11-19T09:22:00.000-08:002006-11-19T09:22:00.000-08:00but a very good case can be made for Jeter as the ...<I> but a very good case can be made for Jeter as the 1999 MVP.</I><BR/><BR/>Whoa. <BR/><BR/>I am wrong. And I will save this for future use.<BR/><BR/><I>But the REAL reason why he doesn't deserve it in 2006? He was absolutely terrible at televised horseplay. </I><BR/><BR/>Oh well, when you put it that way...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163956873373640612006-11-19T09:21:00.000-08:002006-11-19T09:21:00.000-08:00I did have a bit comparing Jeter to Mauer -- a lot...I did have a bit comparing Jeter to Mauer -- a lot of their numbers are similiar -- but I cut it. I may have sold Mauer short as catcher (I didn't look at his stats behind the plate), but I don't know if I would choose him first (as per my definition).<BR/><BR/>Also, maybe I should have included Sizemore -- and dropped A-Rod, but I wanted to include him as a refernece point re: Jeter since he got so much crap all season.<BR/><BR/>There were a lot of good hitting seasons this year -- good arguments to make for many players.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163955983361301702006-11-19T09:06:00.000-08:002006-11-19T09:06:00.000-08:00Thanks for all the work, Redsock. We know that eac...Thanks for all the work, Redsock. We know that each and every writer with a vote goes through a similar exercise.<BR/>Back to reality, the stat I like for situational hitting is the actual number of runners driven in vs. those opportunities. Then a similar one for 'close and late'. Should be one of those selective stats that appear in your local rag every week with the 'Top Ten' hitters. Anyway, as far as the voting goes, it's mostly perception. I've no doubts Jeter gets the votes. But to use your acid-test, I wouldn't even start out with him as my shortstop, I'd want Young, or maybe even that Seattle kid, Yuniesky Betancourt. For someone guaranteed to attract MVP votes, I've got to go with Papi's clutch but Hafner is surely a monster.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10275164807141705059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163955348617915642006-11-19T08:55:00.000-08:002006-11-19T08:55:00.000-08:00Great post...I usually would agree with this hook,...Great post...I usually would agree with this hook, line, and sinker. But my gut tells me that even though the numbers don't lie, they aren't telling the truth. I agree that statistically, Manny tops Papi as a better overall hitter. But our eyes and our hearts can't believe that to be true. <BR/><BR/>Also...if the MVP were to come from the Yankees...one could argue that Damon was the most valuable Yankee in the lineup. Especially early on when all the injuries took their toll on the team, Damon as much as Jeter pulled them through a stretch that could have killed their season.<BR/><BR/>As far as my MVP vote...I still don't know. In an odd way, Papelbon was the most valuable Red Sox player for most of this season (when they werein it). By the time they started to fall, Papelbon's save chances started dwindling. But injury and a second half where situation didn't allow him to shine make that case mute.<BR/><BR/>If the Indians were able to live up to potential, I think Sizemore's name would have appeared alot more as a MVP candidate.<BR/><BR/>Morneau was more valuable to the Twins than Mauer, but noone as much to them as Santana. Without Johan, they have no chance at the playoffs.<BR/><BR/>Jermaine Dye carried the White Sox for stretches of the season.<BR/><BR/>Oh hell....Ortiz was the MVP all year. I talked myself in circles...but I keep going back to that stretch of the season that he single handedly won game after game for the Sox.<BR/><BR/>Tim<BR/><A HREF="http://www.redsoxtimes.com" REL="nofollow">http://www.redsoxtimes.com</A>Tim Daloisiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00255944715555107260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163955255419718172006-11-19T08:54:00.000-08:002006-11-19T08:54:00.000-08:00I do believe that if Derek Jeter were to have the ...<I>I do believe that if Derek Jeter were to have the greatest season in the history of baseball, you would find a way to show that the statistics prove that he didn't deserve the MVP.</I><BR/><BR/>Well, we'll never get the chance to test that theory, will we!<BR/><BR/><I>Could there be anything, ever, that could compel you to choose Derek Jeter for any award, ever? ... I firmly believe the answer is no.</I><BR/><BR/>Sigh. I should have answered this in the original post and cut it off at the pass!<BR/><BR/>Jeter had his best year in 1999.<BR/><BR/>1999: .349/.438/.552, OPS+ 161<BR/>2006: .343/.417/.483, OPS+ 138<BR/><BR/>In 1999, he was #2 in AVG, #3 in OBP, just out of the top 10 in SLG, #5 in OPS, #2 in runs, #1 in hits, #4 in total bases, #2 in triples, #2 in OPS+, #3 in Runs Created, #1 in times on base. A <I>great</I> season.<BR/><BR/>Yet only 1 out of 24 voters <A HREF="http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1999.shtml#ALmvp" REL="nofollow">picked</A> him for MVP (which is bizarre). He finished 6th in the voting behind Ivan Rodriguez, Pedro, Alomar, Manny and Palmeiro.<BR/><BR/>He would have an excellent choice -- perhaps even the logical choice -- for MVP ...<BR/><BR/>... if you don't vote for pitchers.<BR/><BR/>(And I do.) :>)<BR/><BR/>So bad luck for him to do so well in a season in which Pedro put up the 2nd greatest pitching performance since the mound was moved back from 45 feet. (The #1 season came the following year.)<BR/><BR/>You'll probably see some Pedro bias in there -- and there is -- but a very good case can be made for Jeter as the 1999 MVP.<BR/><BR/>But the REAL reason why he doesn't deserve it in 2006? He was <A HREF="http://firejoemorgan.blogspot.com/2006/11/cloak-of-intangibility.html" REL="nofollow">absolutely terrible at televised horseplay</A>.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163953579443360142006-11-19T08:26:00.000-08:002006-11-19T08:26:00.000-08:00Santana was by far and away the most dominant pitc...<I>Santana was by far and away the most dominant pitcher in the AL this season. Looking at his pitching stats reminds me of Pedro in his prime.</I><BR/><BR/>I may have to ban you for this comment.<BR/><BR/>Go <A HREF="http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martipe02.shtml" REL="nofollow">look</A> at what Pedro did in 1999 and 2000. <A HREF="http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/santajo02.shtml" REL="nofollow">Santana</A> was an obvious unanimous CY choice, but Pedro makes him look like Kyle Synder.<BR/><BR/>Santana's ERA+ from 2002-06:<BR/>148, 151, 182, 153, 161<BR/>(Career 144)<BR/><BR/>Pedro ERA+ from 1997-2003:<BR/>221, 160, 245, 285, 189, 196, 212<BR/>(Career 160)<BR/><BR/>What Santana did in 2006 was = to an average Pedro year.allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163952224148430192006-11-19T08:03:00.000-08:002006-11-19T08:03:00.000-08:00Its a compelling argument. I find it difficult to...Its a compelling argument. I find it difficult to argue for Ortiz, even though he's just inhumanely awesome, for the simple reason that just about every stat says that Hafner had a better year. I guess it comes down to a few things: <BR/>1) How much more valuable is a player who plays the field over one who doesn't?<BR/>2) How dominant does a pitcher have to be to be MVP?<BR/><BR/>On the first point, I tend to agree with the post in saying that if the player is not above league average on defense then they shouldn't be accorded any special recognition. Also, if they are below league average, I believe points should be deducted. With this in mind I would actually lean towards Mauer as MVP.<BR/><BR/>On the second point, I belive if a starting pitcher throws enough innings and the innings are more dominant than any other pitcher, then he should be accorded some consideration. Santana was by far and away the most dominant pitcher in the AL this season. Looking at his pitching stats reminds me of Pedro in his prime. He is head and shoulders above everyone else in the league, and I believe he deserves some serious consideration (not that he hasn't been accorded some here). <BR/><BR/>Over all, Jeter had a terrific season, but I find it difficult to see where he was the Most Valuable Player. There are clearly players who were more valuable offensively than he, and his defense is not good enough to put him over the top of anyone else. <BR/><BR/>If I had a vote, I'd vote like this:<BR/>1) Santana<BR/>2) Haffner<BR/>3) Mauer<BR/><BR/>And thanks for the great reading this season. Keep up the excellent work!<BR/><BR/>-MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163951510460169482006-11-19T07:51:00.000-08:002006-11-19T07:51:00.000-08:00Excellent post. Thanks for doing all the work.I ha...Excellent post. Thanks for doing all the work.<BR/><BR/>I have one question. Could there be anything, ever, that could compel you to choose Derek Jeter for any award, ever? <BR/><BR/>Having known you for more than 20 years, and having listened to your opinions about baseball throughout, I firmly believe the answer is no.<BR/><BR/>I don't have an opinion on who should win this year's AL MVP. I think the awards are pretty silly and I don't pay much attention to them. <BR/><BR/>However, I do believe that if Derek Jeter were to have the greatest season in the history of baseball, you would find a way to show that the statistics prove that he didn't deserve the MVP.<BR/><BR/>You love those stats, but you love the Red Sox - and hate the Yankees - more.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5730822.post-1163950619867879772006-11-19T07:36:00.000-08:002006-11-19T07:36:00.000-08:00Hi, and great post. But it seems, at least for the...Hi, and great post. But it seems, at least for the MVP award, that the stats mean less than the public image, the popularity. So I just sit back and wait for it to be awarded, one for each league. And then I'll comment. Hope you are well...PeterPeter Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00625257724065648318noreply@blogger.com