Now, with Ramirez possibly demanding his 2009 and 2010 options be picked up and talk of five or six additional players in the mix, it seems like this idea has gotten too complicated and, because the Orioles want some resolution soon, likely will not happen.
According to sources, the Red Sox are offering Ramirez and Matt Clement for Tejada and an outfielder (Baltimore would like to include Luis Matos, while Boston prefers 22-year-old prospect Nick Markakis).
With Jermoy Burnitz signing with Pittsburgh, the Orioles are left with one less outfielder to send to Boston and no left fielder. The Sun says the Birds are "looking for the Red Sox to sweeten the deal" beyond Manny and Clement. The Herald reports today that Baltimore wants Andy Marte in addition to Ramirez and Clement.
A thread on an Orioles message board says a Tejada-Ramirez/Clement trade has been agreed to in principle, but will likely fall apart due to Ramirez's option demands. I like how Orioles fans think the deal is not enough, while I (and others) contend Boston would be giving up too much.
Marte's name also came up in the ongoing talks with Tampa Bay about shortstop Julio Lugo. The Rays would take Marte for Lugo ... mighty white of them.
As 2006 unfolds, Andrew has a detailed recap of 2005.
Finally, here's is a little of what Tony Massarotti wrote in today's Herald about Manny Ramirez:
So let me get this straight: First, Manny Ramirez asks the Red Sox to trade him, continuing one of the great modern traditions in professional sports. Then when the Sox find a deal that might actually make some sense, Ramirez wants his palm greased because he has the right to blow up the deal.First of all, I love how Mazz moans about "the outrageous world that professional sports has become" -- does he really have 0% knowledge of history or is he playing dumb for his readers?
What a country. ... Time to blow the whistle on Manuel Aristides Ramirez, Red Sox followers. This is just going a little too far. ...
Earlier this week, there were whispers that despite wanting out of Boston, Ramirez might exercise his right to veto a trade unless he gets something out of the deal. That translates into an extension of the player's contract through existing options or otherwise, which means Manny wants to be paid if he gets traded.
Can you believe this guy? He takes the Red Sox prisoner and demands a ransom. And even if the Sox meet his request, Ramirez will do in the hostage.
Second, he's writing as a columnist here; can we trust his writing to be free from obvious bias when he's working as a reporter?
It'd be easier to deal with Manny if he weren't a jerk who happens to swing a bat very well, wouldn't it?
ReplyDeleteJack, I agree with what you are saying, but what is important to remember is that we've yet to hear anything directly from Manny.
ReplyDeleteThere have been contradictory stories about his demand for the option years (the Globe says he didn't ask for that), so that is an open question for me. As for the spring training boycott, his agent has also denied any threat.
So he's apparently being a jerk? So what? He wants more money? There's a rare quality in a human being. ... Seriously, haven't we gotten used to the Manny Show by now?
If you believe the rumors flying around out there -- which no local writer has even hinted at, for some strange reason -- it's likely his wife that is actually pushing him out of town.
If you think Damon paid even .01% to what Manny was saying in making his decision, there's not much I can do. ... "Zip" to charity? Perhaps (and again who cares?), but how would you know?
surely there is some limit to your willingness to excuse Manny
With these numbers? Not bloody likely. ... :>)
Seriously. Look at those stats. He's 9th in slugging ALL-TIME, 10th in OPS ALL-TIME (20th alltime is adjusted OPS+).
He is exactly the kind of guy for whom you put up with a lot of shit. Sorta like Babe Ruth and his career-long nuttiness and head-ache-inducing (for his employers) behavior.
I've said many times I wish Manny would come out and say SOMETHING. One way or the other. It would put an end to a lot of the bullshit. Not all, of course, but a lot of the guessing games in the press and among the fans.
The question is not whether we find Manny "annoying and destructive", but whether his teammates do. That's the relationship that would be harmful to the team, not how the fans feel about him.
ReplyDeleteAnd there is little evidence that Ramirez is disliked by his fellow Socks. They may shake their heads at his behavior/statements every so often, but that is a far cry from being destructive to team morale.
I suppose I am more on Allan's side of things. Manny's a pain but there's no point making it worse than it is.
ReplyDeleteNot to conflate comments under this entry with the newer one, but I really believe that if you look carefully at Manny's quote, it expresses resignation at staying in Boston, and he’s encouraging himself, childlike, with what some of the advantages are. Things we would like to have had him realize all along without the hullabaloo, yes, but still, he's not saying he didn't want a trade, he's just saying that staying in Boston will be all right.
Manny said he's not coming to spring training? No one even claims that he actually said that (that I know of.) That's just a next step from: he really means it about being traded this time, so...he's going to be angry if it doesn't happen, so...so what's he going to do then? I know! Refuse to come to spring training! Complete fabrication.
Manny gives nothing to charity? A lot of people insist on total anonymity, and especially if they're giving a lot of money, they get it. On the other hand, maybe he doesn't give. I don't think people's frustration at their average salaries should be directed at sports and movie stars who make $20 million a year. Their salaries are on the front page. Talk to your CEOs making that kind of money, there's a lot more of them than there are Mannys, A-Rods, and Tom Cruises, and they don’t advertise. Stars get what the market pays. Hell, what I make is a fortune to someone in the third world, and my weaseling for a pay hike from 50k to 60k a year might annoy them as well.
Did he urge Johnny to leave? I don't really know that; none of us does. If he did, he did it in confidence, and anyway, how can we really say that it was a bad move for Johnny? And even if it wasn't in JD's best interests, what do want Manny for? His brains? In the end it's not really our business what he told him.
As far as being a Sox fan, I certainly don't feel that much affection for Manny. I feel the way most people do: I rejoice when he hits it out but I'm still kind of shaking my head afterwards. Unlike when Ortiz hits it out, when I couldn't be much happier or more excited if he was my own cousin.
With Manny I just have the cold certainty that he cannot be replaced by any number of pretty good starters filling the holes we have. He can only be replaced by Tejada, he of the 150 RBIs. Anything less won't do, including the same value spread across several players. That threat has to be concentrated to maximize Ortiz’s contribution. And if we have to have another half year or year or three years of Manny, so be it. He's distracting but not downright incendiary.
Hey, zenslinger, your response seems mostly level-headed, but I don't know about that bit where most Sox fans shake their head afterwards about Manny. I actually like Manny better than Ortiz (though it's kind of like asking which of your siblings you love more).
ReplyDeleteI think Manny's a lot more driven and competitive (and less spacy...at least at the plate) than people give him credit for. Does anyone remember his home run at-bat in the final regular season game last year? He was angry at himself as he hit foul ball after foul ball, and you could tell he wanted to smash it in the proper direction. And then he did...straight into center field. His obvious desire (though admittedly it can be on and off) and obvious talent enamour me of him, even if he can (seemingly...according to the press) be such a jerk and space-case are what keep me interested in watching him.
I guess it boils down to really enjoying watching him hit, enjoying when he demonstrates his competitive fire, and enjoying when he smiles like a kid when he does something cool or makes a mistake. I'll take Manny being Manny, though I do tire of all this "Will he stay or will he go?" stuff. But I could read fewer news articles if it was really bothering me.
How anyone can prefer a case of arrested development over a clutch, classy, mature professional like David Ortiz completely baffles me.
ReplyDeleteLet me make this clear:
I love watching Manny hit and hope he stays in Boston until he retires, but I have proposed to David Ortiz. Proposed.
Devine, you’re right that I shouldn’t have blithely spoken for most Sox fans. I guess I was just thinking about the well-documented fact that most of us who get annoyed with Manny tend to forget about our annoyance when he hits it out.
ReplyDeleteWell, Jack, I still can’t agree with you. But don’t think I’m trying to be a jerk by replying in some detail; it beats talking to Yankee fans..
Spring training: agents say lots of things that players can’t say themselves. “My client won’t settle for less than a 7-year deal” is a remarkable example that no one believed for a second. Obviously said for effect just as surely as Manny’s agent said that, though I haven’t seen a direct quote. Not reporting for spring training would be like dropping a bomb; not even Manny is that Manny.
Money: I think when you make that kind of money, you have a different perspective. Easy for us to say there is a significant lifestyle difference between 50k and 60k, but your $250/year third world fella can’t appreciate that. People in the high range have different goals from the rest of us. I mean, haven’t you heard Chris Rock’s famous quote? “Michael Jordan is rich. The guy that signs his check is wealthy.” There are lots of reasons to work for more and more money when you’re making above $10 mil. Should Stephen King pursue better royalties for his books when he already has a lot of money? Damn right he should; he’s redressing, at least for himself, an inequitable situation in that business. For some, it’s because instead of building an elementary school, they dream of endowing a university. For someone like Manny, or for a lot of players who get lured away from where they should be for another couple of million a year (cough!), it may simply be a point of pride to get what the market will bear.
But the fact is that they’re free to pursue whatever salary they can get and it’s ridiculous, or at least totally against the system in our country, to say that someone has more money than they need or can use. The third world guy thinks that about all of us. I’m not an advocate of extreme capitalism and believe it should be limited in a good left-wing fashion, but it is the engine on which our economy is based.
My point about the CEOs is that there are many more of them making this kind of money, or a LOT more, and no one asks them why they need it. Or tells them that they have more than they could possibly use. It’s not that two wrongs make a right, it’s that this is the way our system works, and if it becomes absurd on the extreme high end, well, it does do something to drive the economy, and no one said it was perfect anyway.
Now, have some of these folks lost perspective? Sure. But Manny does not need to say what he needs the money for. I think the stories about the extra years to his contract are crazy, too. Again, I don’t know how seriously he said that or if he really did. He may have just been running off at the mouth after a conversation with his agent, who’s encouraging him to make hay while the sun shines. It may not have been admirable or smart, but he doesn’t need a reason.
And I promise I won’t take up any more space on this fine blog talking money.
zen: damn nice post (esp. about writers fighting for their due!).
ReplyDeleteglad you took the time to put all that out there.
Jack...it's all fair to say you like David Ortiz better, but it sounds a bit like you're implying I'm a fool for liking Manny better. Which, you know, kind of offends me. I just do. I like to watch him hit.
ReplyDeleteThat's cool, Jack. Just wanna make sure all we're doing is tactfully disagreeing. Thank you for the words.
ReplyDelete