A Congressional committee has taken the first steps toward asking the Department of Justice to launch a criminal investigation into whether Roger Clemens committed perjury during testimony about his use of performance-enhancing drugs, according to three lawyers familiar with the matter.
A draft letter referring Clemens, but not his accuser, Brian McNamee, had been drawn up by staff members for the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform by the end of last week, according to two of the lawyers. However, all three lawyers, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to comment publicly on the matter, said it was possible that McNamee could also be included in the referral by the time it is sent to the Justice Department.
"D-bag" didn't even pardon Scooter Libby (he commuted the sentence). Bush will NOT pardon Clemens, and if it even gets to that point, Clemens is ruined.The Feds would do him a favor by charging him, because he's be acquitted, and the public would take that as exoneration. I repeat, McNamee's lawyer's Bush conspiracy theory was embarrassingly stupid; don't fall for it. He might as well have said Roger was going to turn into a flying turnip and escape to Neptune.
"D-bag" didn't even pardon Scooter Libby (he commuted the sentence).
Oh well, that's fine then.
Jack, your legal briefs are very educational, but I hope you understand - at least on some level - that most people aren't interested in this case from a legal standpoint. They're enjoying the spectacle and they're rooting for Roger's demise to be as out-sized as his ego.
Similary, the Bush-Clemens connection pisses people off, and they vent about it here on JoS. Your information, although perhaps factually correct, is not going to change that.
I don't include myself in that, of course. I'm not paying attention to any of this.
Geez at least Libby was disbarred and fined .Fat Billy won't even get a slap on the wrist.....I love white collar crime it always involves the true scum of the earth...
The issue is Clemens' credibility, that's all, and the silly pardoning theories (from a President who has issued the least pardons ever, an unforgivably small number)just blur the situation(to those of us who think it's worth paying attention to.)Venting is fine---getting pissed off IN ADVANCE over something that's NEVER going to happen is just crazy, and I think it's worth saying so.
And I guess I don't understand the point of a discussion involving perjury, pardons, and evidence engaged in by by people who "aren't interested in this case from a legal standpoint." Those ARE legal matters and concepts. Why are people talking about things they aren't interested in? Having strong opinions about stuff people don't care to understand is the bain of public debate---my impression is JOS has higher standards that that. If someone says, "Trot Nixon is a great player; I don't care what the stats say," someone here is going to take him or her apart, piece by piece. Well, "Bush is going to pardon Clemens," or "that party photo will get Clemens convicted of perjury!" are just about as supportable as the Trot fan's statement, and to anyone who knows something about the legal system, just as annoying.
And I guess I don't understand the point of a discussion involving perjury, pardons, and evidence engaged in by by people who "aren't interested in this case from a legal standpoint." Those ARE legal matters and concepts. Why are people talking about things they aren't interested in?
I think they're just having fun, is all. I could be wrong, and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am, but I don't think most people reading these Clemens-related posts (OR the person writing them!) cares all that much about the legalities of what's happening. I think they're just enjoying watching the man crash and burn.
It's true, as you say, that JoS has high standards of debate about the baseball. I guess there are some exceptions to that, if not by design, then at least in practice.
That's just my take from scrolling through these threads. If I'm wrong and Joy Nation really cares about the legalities, then you're providing an important service.
Laura: Only because that's the issue at hand. The pardon power is a direct way to remedy injustice, show mercy, heal broken lives and cut through red tape. It takes a President about 10 minutes to get someone like Genarlow Wilson out of jail (he's the high school senior who was sentenced to 10 years without parole in Georgia for getting a Lewinski from a sophomore at a party), and instead the kid rotted for two years plus until a judge finally stepped in. There are thousands of these people, and just as you choose to focus on other baseball issues than steroids, which some of us think is a core matter of sports integrity, I choose to be concerned about some basic Bush-related issues that most people don't think about. This is one of many...and I'm sure not forgiving it, let's put it that way.
You're right - it is important, both to those people whose lives could have been helped, and in the larger sense of a justice system that recognizes and includes mercy.
In 1992, Bill Clinton took time off the campaign trail to execute Ricky Ray Rector, a mentally retarded African-American man convicted of killing a white police officer.
Rector was said to have the mental capacity of a 7 year old. At his last meal before his excecution, Rector asked if he could save his dessert for the next day.
Clinton could have pardoned Rector, but instead he chose to appear "tough on crime".
I never forgot that. For me it was also unforgiveable.
The pardon power is a direct way to remedy injustice, show mercy, heal broken lives and cut through red tape.
No wonder Bush doesn't give a shit about them.
There are thousands of these people ... I choose to be concerned about some basic Bush-related issues that most people don't think about.
It's not only Bush, of course. There are tens of thousands of Americans in jail for the most minor of first-time drug crimes (like this 17-year-old kid given life in jail for smoking pot while on probation (he was later pardoned)).
I think they're just having fun, is all. I could be wrong, and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am, but I don't think most people reading these Clemens-related posts (OR the person writing them!) cares all that much about the legalities of what's happening. I think they're just enjoying watching the man crash and burn.
Pretty much, I really couldn't care less about this case and the underlying morality issues. I'm not really that interested in the case at all, and it's gotten to the point where I'm frankly sick and tired of hearing about the guy.
Spring training has started, games are about to get underway and theres much better discussion topics than this non-issue. Whatever happens, happens.
not like it matters if he gets charged, president d-bag will pardon him anyway.
ReplyDelete"D-bag" didn't even pardon Scooter Libby (he commuted the sentence). Bush will NOT pardon Clemens, and if it even gets to that point, Clemens is ruined.The Feds would do him a favor by charging him, because he's be acquitted, and the public would take that as exoneration. I repeat, McNamee's lawyer's Bush conspiracy theory was embarrassingly stupid; don't fall for it. He might as well have said Roger was going to turn into a flying turnip and escape to Neptune.
ReplyDelete"D-bag" didn't even pardon Scooter Libby (he commuted the sentence).
ReplyDeleteOh well, that's fine then.
Jack, your legal briefs are very educational, but I hope you understand - at least on some level - that most people aren't interested in this case from a legal standpoint. They're enjoying the spectacle and they're rooting for Roger's demise to be as out-sized as his ego.
Similary, the Bush-Clemens connection pisses people off, and they vent about it here on JoS. Your information, although perhaps factually correct, is not going to change that.
I don't include myself in that, of course. I'm not paying attention to any of this.
Geez at least Libby was disbarred and fined .Fat Billy won't even get a slap on the wrist.....I love white collar crime it always involves the true scum of the earth...
ReplyDeleteL-girl: who said it was "fine?"
ReplyDeleteThe issue is Clemens' credibility, that's all, and the silly pardoning theories (from a President who has issued the least pardons ever, an unforgivably small number)just blur the situation(to those of us who think it's worth paying attention to.)Venting is fine---getting pissed off IN ADVANCE over something that's NEVER going to happen is just crazy, and I think it's worth saying so.
And I guess I don't understand the point of a discussion involving perjury, pardons, and evidence engaged in by by people who "aren't interested in this case from a legal standpoint."
Those ARE legal matters and concepts. Why are people talking about things they aren't interested in? Having strong opinions about stuff people don't care to understand is the bain of public debate---my impression is JOS has higher standards that that. If someone says, "Trot Nixon is a great player; I don't care what the stats say," someone here is going to take him or her apart, piece by piece. Well, "Bush is going to pardon Clemens," or "that party photo will get Clemens convicted of perjury!" are just about as supportable as the Trot fan's statement, and to anyone who knows something about the legal system, just as annoying.
He might as well have said Roger was going to turn into a flying turnip and escape to Neptune.
ReplyDeleteor...uranus....
*snicker*
And I guess I don't understand the point of a discussion involving perjury, pardons, and evidence engaged in by by people who "aren't interested in this case from a legal standpoint."
ReplyDeleteThose ARE legal matters and concepts. Why are people talking about things they aren't interested in?
I think they're just having fun, is all. I could be wrong, and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am, but I don't think most people reading these Clemens-related posts (OR the person writing them!) cares all that much about the legalities of what's happening. I think they're just enjoying watching the man crash and burn.
It's true, as you say, that JoS has high standards of debate about the baseball. I guess there are some exceptions to that, if not by design, then at least in practice.
That's just my take from scrolling through these threads. If I'm wrong and Joy Nation really cares about the legalities, then you're providing an important service.
(from a President who has issued the least pardons ever, an unforgivably small number)
ReplyDeleteOf all the things to use this president and "unforgivably" in the same sentence, this is an odd choice, to say the least.
Laura: Only because that's the issue at hand. The pardon power is a direct way to remedy injustice, show mercy, heal broken lives and cut through red tape. It takes a President about 10 minutes to get someone like Genarlow Wilson out of jail (he's the high school senior who was sentenced to 10 years without parole in Georgia for getting a Lewinski from a sophomore at a party), and instead the kid rotted for two years plus until a judge finally stepped in. There are thousands of these people, and just as you choose to focus on other baseball issues than steroids, which some of us think is a core matter of sports integrity, I choose to be concerned about some basic Bush-related issues that most people don't think about. This is one of many...and I'm sure not forgiving it, let's put it that way.
ReplyDeleteJack, thanks for explaining.
ReplyDeleteYou're right - it is important, both to those people whose lives could have been helped, and in the larger sense of a justice system that recognizes and includes mercy.
In 1992, Bill Clinton took time off the campaign trail to execute Ricky Ray Rector, a mentally retarded African-American man convicted of killing a white police officer.
Rector was said to have the mental capacity of a 7 year old. At his last meal before his excecution, Rector asked if he could save his dessert for the next day.
Clinton could have pardoned Rector, but instead he chose to appear "tough on crime".
I never forgot that. For me it was also unforgiveable.
The pardon power is a direct way to remedy injustice, show mercy, heal broken lives and cut through red tape.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder Bush doesn't give a shit about them.
There are thousands of these people ... I choose to be concerned about some basic Bush-related issues that most people don't think about.
It's not only Bush, of course. There are tens of thousands of Americans in jail for the most minor of first-time drug crimes (like this 17-year-old kid given life in jail for smoking pot while on probation (he was later pardoned)).
I think they're just having fun, is all. I could be wrong, and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am, but I don't think most people reading these Clemens-related posts (OR the person writing them!) cares all that much about the legalities of what's happening. I think they're just enjoying watching the man crash and burn.
ReplyDeletePretty much, I really couldn't care less about this case and the underlying morality issues. I'm not really that interested in the case at all, and it's gotten to the point where I'm frankly sick and tired of hearing about the guy.
Spring training has started, games are about to get underway and theres much better discussion topics than this non-issue. Whatever happens, happens.
And fuck the war on drugs.
Thanks Tim :)
ReplyDelete