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June 11, 2008

G68: Red Sox 6, Orioles 3

Orioles - 000 010 002 - 3  9  2
Red Sox - 500 001 00x - 6 7 1
The Sox struck early: a first-inning fiver capped off by Jason Varitek's three-run home run to deep left. Colon made it stand up: 6-5-1-1-7, 93.

It was Timlin Being Timlin in the ninth before Tito called on Bot to slam the door.

2 GA!

***

Garrett Olson (3.86, 110 ERA+) / Bartolo Colon (3.91, 112 ERA+)

Tampa (1 GB) plays the Angels this afternoon (live box).

353 comments:

  1. A reader writes with a possible Craig Hansen nickname:

    I was watching last night's game with a friend who is a fellow Sox fan and my girlfriend, who loves football but wasn't really raised on baseball. When Hansen came on, I reminded my buddy of how he was supposed to be the Closer of the Future when he was drafted, before the Bot Era. My girlfriend asks, "so, is that like Dippin' Dots? The Ice Cream of the Future that never really was?"
    I thought that was the perfect nickname for Craig Hansen, circa June 2008.... Not to mention how well it describes his tendency to nibble around the plate.


    Any thoughts?

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  2. Don't know that I'm going to be able to use that with a straight face. And Dippin' Dots are so far from being the next ice cream that I have only kind of puzzled over pictures of them, wondering what they were supposed to taste like. I like to hope Hansen is not quite that far from the mark.

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  3. Which is not to say it's not a nice effort at a whimsical nickname...

    Angels up 4-2 after breaking through against Kazmir, who was perfect into the fifth.

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  4. Rays lose. Can we go up two full games behind Big Boy?

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  5. I like Hansen so I'm down on this one.

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  6. Hansen is good, cheap, and could become a closer in the future, to some team. Or the setup man here. Dippin' Dots are okay, expensive, and will not be the ice cream of the future.

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  7. How could anything be the Ice Cream of the Future. It's just frozen balls of Ice Cream, they actually sell a form of it the grocery stores now....It sucks though, so if Hansen name Is dippin dots , than by virtue of that name he sucks to...so no not good...sorry if i offened anyone.

    And I would like to see Hansen finish a year with the big ballclub before he is bestowed a nickname, we need to have some restraint on who gets one and who doesn't......

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  8. 1. Brian Roberts, 2B
    2. Nick Markakis, RF
    3. Melvin Mora, 3B
    4. Aubrey Huff, DH
    5. Kevin Millar, 1B
    6. Luke Scott, LF
    7. Ramon Hernandez, C
    8. Adam Jones, CF
    9. Freddie Bynum, SS

    1. Jacoby Ellsbury, LF
    2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B
    3. J.D. Drew, RF
    4. Manny Ramirez, DH
    5. Mike Lowell, 3B
    6. Kevin Youkilis, 1B
    7. Jason Varitek, C
    8. Coco Crisp, CF
    9. Julio Lugo, SS

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  9. Can someone answer me this...In the bad old days of Tim Horgan and Ray Fitzgerald ( and a whippersnapper Peter Gammons), a Sox manager that left in a relief pitcher (call him...Okajima) to lose the game when he so obviously (SO SO obviously!) didn't have it would have been eviscerated by the Boston scribes. Has 2004 changed that? Sometimes the evisceration is well deserved...

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  10. good lord -- masn with gary thorne and buck martinez. palmer was no party, but jesus christ......

    i'll be hitting the sauce extra early to deal with this .....

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  11. jays lost this afternoon, but it looks like rogers is showing cws-det. booooooooooooooooooooooo

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  12. Still holding out hope for Rogers...

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  13. Has 2004 changed that?

    Short answer: Fuck Yeah!

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  14. Ah, Jack's predictable anti-Tito post. Some things never change. (There's an open goal for ya.)

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  15. Damn, Rogers does have the Detroit-White Sox game. Stuck with MASN.

    Plus we have to leave sound on b/c I'm doing other things at the same time.

    Ugh.

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  16. 9C may be right. Not everyone needs a nickname right away. They have to earn it, for better or worse.

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  17. Christ, I LIKE Tito! It just seems to me that if anyone watching the tube can tell that a guy has no command on a given day, the manager should be able to get him out of there before the game is lost. That's all. Saving Papelbon for extra innings, which clearly drives Allan to distraction, is nowhere near as indefensible as yesterday's botch.

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  18. It's 1-0 in the 2nd inning and the Orioles anncrs are giving Os stats on coming back from behind. Geez!

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  19. torch that plate!!!

    olsonballa!

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  20. I love facing shitty pitching. Hopefully we won't out-shitty them.

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  21. Yes, that's the key. Not out-shittying them.

    They're saying that Olson may be a contender for ROY, "depending how the season goes".

    Yeah. That.

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  22. TEK DONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thanks, Jason!!!!!!!!

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  23. CAPTAIN DONG!!!!

    There's a surprise for ya, A!

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  24. Amy's not here tonight but hopefully she's got a radio on on the way to the Cape.

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  25. on pace for 40 runs tonight -- or 45 if our staff really sucks.

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  26. Thorne: "Now the Orioles will do what they've done all season, come from behind."

    He knows something we don't know.

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  27. Thorne: "Now the Orioles will do what they've done all season, come from behind."

    Are there some other Orioles besides the ones that are in last place in the East????

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  28. Come from behind? Orioles seem more likely to take it in the....

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  29. Millar runs about as fast as an actual cabin.

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  30. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

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  31. Some of my best friends are cabins.

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  32. ump does not call the rule book strike zone on the 1-2 to scott.

    and instead of a K, it's a 2B.

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  33. I'm just saying I'm not a casaphobe.

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  34. Home-a-phobe, that might be the last word on this one.

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  35. Slugo! How can we hate you if you insist on hitting?

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  36. This poor lurker who emailed Allan w/ a nickname idea. Now he'll never post.

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  37. It weren't a bad idea.

    On the CBS GDGD "Live Glog" they have come up with "Fatolo" for Colon's nickname. Now that's bad.

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  38. Olson through 2: 45 pitches, 25 strikes.

    Colon through 3: 45 pitches, 31 strikes.

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  39. Fatolo?! OMG that is awful. Beyond awful.

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  40. if hansen is "dipping dots", then is colon "dipping donuts" (not dunkin, as not to be sued!)

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  41. At least call him something like "Rotundo".

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  42. You're right, Dippin Dots isn't a bad idea. It just isn't going to take hold, coming from a non-gamethreader, I think.

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  43. Wait a second, Allan thinks I'm being unfair to lurkers. I just mean nicknames happen organically, in threads. They can't drop in from outer space.

    Oh whatever, I'll shut up about it. Go back to putting down popular writers.

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  44. Was that Lowell out as deep as GDGD said?

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  45. Good evening, everyone

    And a good one indeed, so far

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  46. CF stumbled back towards the garage door. It was deep.

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  47. The South American division of JoS has arrived.

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  48. What time zone are you in, Ofer?

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  49. This morning I realized we're heading into winter ourselves. It looks colder in Newfoundland than I thought. Good thing we like that.

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  50. A word on Dipping Dots: in the park I worked in in Minnesota, they used to leave their booth open at night, so every time we finished working after opening hours, we used to eat a lot of it. It's OK, I guess, but I wouldn't pay for it.

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  51. New slogan: Dippin' Dots, worth eating if they're free!

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  52. took 2 warmups. seems okay. sharp 1 hopper off inside of right arm, i think. caromed out into RF.

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  53. One of those situations a little padding doesn't hurt, I guess.

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  54. I guess I'm on Central time here. One hour ahead of NY and Boston

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  55. And about bad popular writers, two words: Paulo Coehlo

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  56. Central Time, I would not have guessed that. Once again, my geography sucks.

    When we went to Peru, I was shocked to learn it's in Eastern time. It's on the Pacific ocean, so how could that be?

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  57. And I would like to see Hansen finish a year with the big ballclub before he is bestowed a nickname, we need to have some restraint on who gets one and who doesn't......

    Unless, of course, you're at a gumball machine when you find out you're being called up.

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  58. I guess I'm on Central time here. One hour ahead of NY and Boston

    Ahead? Confused. Is it 7:11 there or 9:11 there? Because one hour ahead of NYC is Atlantic Time.

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  59. Unless, of course, you're at a gumball machine when you find out you're being called up.

    That's right.

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  60. Coelho, I have not read him, but it's so not my thing. He's like a god to many people. (Usually a bad sign.)

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  61. Ah, see. I missed the whole South African bit. Should've scrolled up more. Just walked in.

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  62. South America is shifted east a bit relative to North America.

    You mean behind, right? (9EDT = 8EDT.)

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  63. Thanks Ish, I'm glad it wasn't only me. I also thought Atlantic time.

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  64. Central Time, I would not have guessed that. Once again, my geography sucks.

    When we went to Peru, I was shocked to learn it's in Eastern time. It's on the Pacific ocean, so how could that be?


    Well, it's too things: the pacific isn't a straight line, and also there's this thing with the daylight line where it goes in waves, so even if NY and Buenos Aires are in the same latitude, in Buenos Aires it will get dark later
    Or something like that

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  65. You mean behind, right? (9EDT = 8EDT.)

    Heh, kind of reminds me of the whole daylight savings time thing. I used to get so confused as to whether we were moving ahead or moving behind.

    I'm near Boston, so I always think one hour ahead is Atlantic Time. And central time; Chicago, St. Louis, Dallas, etc., would be one hour behind.

    Could be worse. I was watching NBC Nightly News tonight and Brian Williams was in Kabul. He had to start the news at 3:00 AM there, which was 6:30 PM here.

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  66. By ahead I mean that I reach 9PM before you. Or before EST, at least. Oh, yeah, that really isn't Central time. My mistake

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  67. By ahead I mean that I reach 9PM before you. Or before EST, at least. Oh, yeah, that really isn't Central time. My mistake

    So... it's 9:17 PM there right now, right?

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  68. Luke Scott > Red Sox pitching

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  69. Scott's a brand of toilet paper.

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  70. 9:17 is correct. But the hours mean something different in this city... people start dinner at 9-10, parties start at 2AM, etc.

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  71. South America is shifted east a bit relative to North America.

    Shifted a lot. Much farther out into the Atlantic.

    It was just the way I thought of it - Peru, Pacific Ocean, California time. But no.

    Anyway, I'm relieved that Buenos Aires is an hour east of Toronto, not an hour west. That's what I was picturing.

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  72. 9:17 is correct. But the hours mean something different in this city... people start dinner at 9-10, parties start at 2AM, etc.

    That's cool. What city are you in? See if I can pinpoint it on a map.


    Castig on Just For Men haircolor: "It's a great product. I used it in the past, but I just can't fool anyone anymore."

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  73. I was going to ask that about time there. I remember our friends talking about the huge steaks people were eating at 10 pm, parties starting at midnight.

    Does everyone sleep late, or do people just not sleep?

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  74. GDGD froze. Maybe the monkey's having trouble describing what happened. Did it roll up Youk's sleeve, ping pong off Pedroia, Lugo, and Lowell, before getting tossed by Tek back to Youk for the out?

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  75. 55° in Cape Town, South Africa at 2:21 AM on Thursday.

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  76. Also, do they siesta there? That would help the all-nighters.

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  77. China's interesting, because the communist government wanted the enire country to be in the same time zone. Go figure that one. China is much bigger across than the US, and they're all on one time zone.

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  78. Watching the clip, it looks like Tek's homer landed on a car. Confirm or deny?

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  79. That is weird. But I guess it's the least of their problems in China.

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  80. Ish , I know you like to listen to the radio call I heard the bottom of the first inning on the radio.....and Dale Arnold doesn't shut the fuck up.......

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  81. Imagine if the whole US needed to be on Washington time.

    So, in LA, sunrise would be 8:41 AM and sunset would be 11:04 PM.

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  82. phil said...
    Watching the clip, it looks like Tek's homer landed on a car. Confirm or deny?

    Confirmed

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  83. The siesta is more a provincial thing than an urban one. But in almost any city that isn't Buenos Aires and in the small towns, you'll have a hard time finding a store open between 1-5. It's a great custom, I'd love Israel to embrace it

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  84. On the radio they had a lot of Drinkwater(giant glass) jokes....After the ball hit the car

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  85. You just know that if Tibet ever got independence, the first thing it'd do after practicing a whole messload of Buddhism is change its timezone.

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  86. Ish , I know you like to listen to the radio call I heard the bottom of the first inning on the radio.....and Dale Arnold doesn't shut the fuck up.......

    No, no he doesn't. I don't really mind it, but that's because he's only on once a week. Other than that, it's all Dave O'Brien.

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  87. the dong ball must have bounced there. it was lodged by the wipers and nothing was broken or dented.

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  88. It's great that people still do that. We saw that in Italy too - huge long lunches, then everything is closed for a few hours.

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  89. And I have no idea what they do about sleeping. I think most shops open at 9AM, but if you went to sleep at 6 that's still not enough. I guess that most people only go out on weekends, and sleep through Sunday

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  90. Free Tibet and Change The Time Zones!

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  91. Drinkwater jokes, Jere would like that.

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  92. ish said...


    No, no he doesn't. I don't really mind it, but that's because he's only on once a week. Other than that, it's all Dave O'Brien.

    He read the stupidest stats I have heard.and talking about his hockey roots and just really annoying.....You don't even realize O'brien is there when Joe has the call.....

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  93. L-girl said...
    Drinkwater jokes, Jere would like that.

    Yes, he would he has some sort of man crush on him , or seat envy.one or the other

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  94. Anyway, I think they have a "play is more important than work" mentality here. Another thing I embrace

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  95. Shit, I missed a Tek dong while eating dinner. One should never eat during a Red Sox game. Even on the Cape.

    Yeah, right.

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  96. Amy , where do you stay on the Cape? Me and the Fam will be there this weekend..sounds like I want to crash your vacation.I promise I won't....

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  97. thorne says orioles are 18-25 against teams over .500. he says "that's respectable."

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  98. Anyway, I think they have a "play is more important than work" mentality here. Another thing I embrace

    Right, they know how to live, they know what's important. I often feel that way when I'm out of North America - people enjoy life more.

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  99. Casey, we are in Wellfleet. Where will you be?

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  100. Hi Amy, I was wondering if you had the radio on for Captain Dong. It was quite a shot.

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  101. I spent a summer in Italy many years ago after college. I loved the siesta thing. (Trying to catch up with the thread and the game at the same time: quite a challenge.)

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  102. L-girl said...
    Anyway, I think they have a "play is more important than work" mentality here. Another thing I embrace

    Right, they know how to live, they know what's important. I often feel that way when I'm out of North America - people enjoy life more.



    That's because you are usually on vacation and enjoying yourself more.

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  103. No, no radio. We were in a restaurant, looking out at the water. Sorry, Tek.

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  104. That's because you are usually on vacation and enjoying yourself more.

    Uh, no, I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about the people we meet and see. Cultural differences in Europe, South America, Mexico.

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  105. I see discussions of time zones. One thing that mystifies me is the International Date Line. And I still have trouble with fall behind, spring ahead.

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  106. That's because you are usually on vacation and enjoying yourself more.

    So true. And yet, what L said is also true, I think.

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  107. Amy said...
    Casey, we are in Wellfleet. Where will you be?

    We will be in South Yarmouth at the Blue Water....My friend has place in Eastham (up that way) we stayed at last year.......It's like 2 different worlds up there once you get off 6 in Orleans....

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  108. On fire is very sexy to me now. I was once enamored with him but now I will invite him into my bed.

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  109. thorne and buck the nasal nuisance keep talking about how the birds can come back -- get some guys on, gets a few extra base hits, get a run here so they are within a 3-run HR, plenty of ABs left, they did it last night, they'll do it here -- meanwhile, colon is mowin' 'em down.

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  110. I want to say that Colon has been a huge pickup for the Sox, without meaning it as a pun. But I can't. They've taken away our right to say huge and big when talking about this guy

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  111. Example, in many countries we've been in, after dinner everyone goes outside, walks around. There is music in the town square - not for tourists, for the townspeople - and everyone hangs out, talks, walks, visits with neighbours. No one is inside watching TV.

    It wasn't a holiday or special day, it was just every day life. I thought this was beautiful and amazing.

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  112. 2008 Colon is a big improvement on 2005 Wells.

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  113. Shitty teams get lucky, some get lucky for longer, i.e. Rays.

    O's are not that lucky and that is what it will take because they are not talented.

    Do you think Lowell smokes cuban cigars? He looks so Miami to me

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  114. Well for me it's not a vacation thing, b/c I'm observing others who are not on vacation. We were the only ones speaking English in these places, not touristy stuff at all.

    Huge pickup. Yes, you'd need one.

    DOCTOR DONG!

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  115. Sox win probability: 95%. It could happen, once out of twenty tries.

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  116. Hot Doc!

    (I am liking this game much better than last night so far.)

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  117. Uh, no, I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about the people we meet and see. Cultural differences in Europe, South America, Mexico.

    I think he meant that since you're on vacation and enjoying yourself, you kind of see life through rose coloured glasses. So everything looks better.
    It's like taking a bus ride when on vacation as opposed to one back home: you look out the window and expect the scenery to be beautiful, so it is, even if it's ordinary

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  118. The Rays are not a shitty team. They are a really good team, and they're going to be good for a while.

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  119. Lowell says: leaping-catch that, Jones.

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  120. L I have been to places and seen this. I am finally getting my wife to follow suit and now we go out and casually ride our bikes around the hood and we are getting our backyard landscaped this summer so we will extend the bike ride into a backyard sunset viewing. wine goes well with this.

    Lowell said "say hello to my little friend!"

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  121. TB is a small market team with a crapload of draft wealth.

    Win probability: 97%. Keep trying, O's.

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  122. way to go, o's! you're gettin' colder!

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  123. Lowell was born in Puerto Rico to a Cuban exile and raised in Miami.

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  124. Ofer said...
    .

    I think he meant that since you're on vacation and enjoying yourself, you kind of see life through rose coloured glasses. So everything looks better.
    It's like taking a bus ride when on vacation as opposed to one back home: you look out the window and expect the scenery to be beautiful, so it is, even if it's ordinary



    Exactly!!!!Good job ofer...can you please to all my writing for me......:)

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  125. L i am not on your side on that one. Rays: shitty team.

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  126. How come Olson is still in there? (not complaining or anything... just wondering)

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  127. Well, I see a lot of things on vacations that I don't think are better than what we have here. Much more poverty and disease, non-drinkable water, etc.

    Oh geez, they are teeing off on this guy. YOOOOOOOOOOOK.

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  128. I agree, Laura, that most places I have been have a much more balanced view of life than we do here. Italians relish food, wine, people, art, music, etc., and time with family and friends in a way that most (North?) Americans do not. It is just built into their days and their culture. The siesta is just one example.

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  129. Lowell also has a house in Pinecrest, which is fifteen minutes from Miami.

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  130. I think that the rays will crap out and trade all their younguns away for a bunch of idiot old washed up assholes.

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  131. OK, 9C I got it, through Ofer. :)

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  132. Lucky doesn't last this long in baseball. Not into mid-June.

    Why is it so hard to admit there are other good teams?

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  133. I think that the rays will crap out and trade all their younguns away for a bunch of idiot old washed up assholes.

    I wouldn't say I think so. But I would say I hope so. They could be scary in a year or two.

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  134. Amy said...
    I agree, Laura, that most places I have been have a much more balanced view of life than we do here. Italians relish food, wine, people, art, music, etc., and time with family and friends in a way that most (North?) Americans do not. It is just built into their days and their culture. The siesta is just one example.



    They didn't have siesta's but when I was in Nebraska , I felt they lived better and were mich nicer that east coasters,

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  135. Italians relish food, wine, people, art, music, etc., and time with family and friends in a way that most (North?) Americans do not. It is just built into their days and their culture. The siesta is just one example.

    Change Italians with Argentinians, and that sentence is still true. And thanks for that North in there... people here are often offended by the use of Americans as a US only term

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  136. Amy, I think it's fair to say North Americans. English Canada is the same way, as far as I can tell. Quebeckers are more like Europeans that way.

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  137. it was obvious a few years ago the rays were on the cusp of being quite good. wasn't sure it would happen in 2008, though, but it has. they are good and will be good for quite awhile. and they are not idiots.

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  138. people here are often offended by the use of Americans as a US only term

    I've totally retrained myself because of that - and because of Canadians reminding me that they are also Americans. Now I always say "US" or "North America".

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  139. I love it when GDGD has pitchers replacing themselves.

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  140. Why would FKR make a trade like that? Their $43.4m is second to last in the majors. They're a young team who've drafted well after rebuilding for eons and have a bright future ahead.

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  141. They didn't have siesta's but when I was in Nebraska , I felt they lived better and were mich nicer that east coasters

    Every midwesterner I've ever met feels that way. Same in Canada - prairies vs cities.

    But they all work too damn much.

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  142. 9C, yes, we rarely venture past the Orleans Rotary once we are here for just that reason. We love the Outer Cape---much less built up (though too built up itself these days), more quirky, artsy, lots of good restaurants. We love the National Seashore. The Upper Cape (below the Rotary, but called Upper) is much more New England-y. We have stayed in Yarmouth, and there are some great beaches there also, but we prefer our little town down here in the "wilderness."

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  143. I'm calling an ON FIRE two run dong next inning

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  144. I think it's better to respect your rivals and take them seriously than strut around acting like you're the only good team in the league.

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  145. Pitchers replacing themselves, I remember that from my GDGD days.

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  146. I have always used Americans to mean US residents/citizens. I would say North America to refer to Canada, Mexico and the US.

    Ofer, I don't think you ever said what you are doing in Argentina or what you would be doing if you end up in Boston.

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  147. Yeah, I tried saying United Statesians, but you can't really say it in a conversation without people looking at you funny. So I switched to "people from the US"

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  148. martinez implying BAL will come back. they did it against the pen last night -- and here is the pen again! woot!!!

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  149. Would a Canadian use the term American to refer to a Canadian or a US citizen?

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  150. Ofer, I don't think you ever said what you are doing in Argentina or what you would be doing if you end up in Boston.

    You're right. I'm in the midst of a 5 month trip in Argentina and Chile, in which my sole goal is travelling, getting to know the countries, see beatiful places, meet interesting people, etc.
    When I get back to the US, it'll be to work. I work for an Israeli company that installs video cameras on roller coasters on different amusement parks across the US (and Toronto. And two in Europe, now) and then sell people DVDs of themselves riding them

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  151. Drew is the master of that backwards catch. Amazing to watch.

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  152. Is aardvark Aardsma new nickname?

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  153. That's great that you are taking that time to travel. SOunds wonderful.

    I have a snapshot taken of my family and me coming down Splash Mountain at Disneyworld from many years ago, but no video. I wonder if the park in Massachusetts you are talking about is Six Flags in Agawam, which is about 15 minutes from where I live. If so, let me know!

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  154. O'S ARE COMING BACK!!!!!
    DOOMED!!!!!!!!!

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  155. Cdns will say American when discussing Americans vs. Canadians, the people.

    But they will call the country "the US", not "America".

    In my experience, only Americans call the US America.

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  156. I prefer it as AHHdVAHk or Oddvok

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  157. I actually have no idea what park it is. I was just told "there's a chance you'll be working in Boston".

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  158. BAL has hit at least 2 doubles in 13 of last 18 games. You cannot believe how much importance Thorne and Buck are giving this worthless factoid.

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  159. The summer ads have started for the theme parks, and we keep seeing one for some huge roller coaster in "Canada's Wonderland". I always think of Ofer when I see it.

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  160. There's a Six Flags in Agawam, but that's an hour and a half from Boston.

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  161. Every time I hear the word aardvark (that's not very often) I think about Catch 22, and not about the animal:

    "Not to good old Aarfy. They wouldn't do that to good old Aarfy"

    Best part of the book, IMHO.

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  162. Yeah, they're talking nonstop about how many doubles the O's hit. That and a dollar will get you...

    What? I used to say a subway token.

    I am old.

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  163. But would a Canadian consider themselves "American" in the sense of North America?

    I think the US has always used America as its second name, as in America the Beautiful, the American flag, the United States of America, etc. I never knew that was controversial since I never knew that a Mexican, Canadian, CHilean, Brazilian, etc., would consider themselves to be "American." If that's the case, then I can see the controversy. But if residents of other countries don't lay claim to being "American," I don't see the problem.

    Guess I sound like a US-centric American!

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  164. The summer ads have started for the theme parks, and we keep seeing one for some huge roller coaster in "Canada's Wonderland". I always think of Ofer when I see it.

    If that's either Topgun or the Vortex, we have cameras on it.

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  165. Yes, Phil, that's the Six Flags I meant. You know that one?

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  166. thorne can have an orgasm at roberts's plays, but it's still 6-1.

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  167. They don't claim they are Americans, they are Americans. They're live in the continent of America. It's only a matter of semantics, I guess, but words do mean a lot.

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  168. I can't think of any real amusement parks in Boston itself. I know that kids from Boston come out to Agawam for class trips, etc.

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  169. Failed on my HR call... oh, well.

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  170. I went there as a kid, back when it was called Riverside.

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  171. I can't think of any real amusement parks in Boston itself. I know that kids from Boston come out to Agawam for class trips, etc.

    Yeah, that's probably it, then. Most amusement parks are about an hour, hour and a half from big metropolitan areas, from my experience

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  172. double dip from doctor dong?

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  173. Ofer, they may be Americans in the geographic sense, but if the term is not used by anyone that way, then does it really have that meaning? I am trying to think of an analogy, but having a problem thinking of one.

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