[Under orders from MLB, YouTube has pulled the two clips. MLB remains dead set against allowing fans to enjoy various clips of games they most likely have not seen. And MLB clearly does not want any possible new fans enjoying parts of game online. New fans? Can't have that!
I did not save these clips to my hard drive. If anyone has them and can email them to me (or upload them somewhere), I will host them myself.]
During last night's game, reader Mike M. sent me a Youtube video that shows Mike Lowell, after chasing a foul ball towards the stands late in Monday's game, pocketing a fan's cellphone. (Another video of the theft is here.)
A commenter on that second video notes that Lowell "took the guys cellphone as a prank. The phone was given back to the fan. NBC 7 reported on this during their 10pm news cast."
Anyone else remember a Red Sox player (Nixon, maybe?) grabbing a handful of a fan's popcorn during a game?
***
Red Sox Birth Control Watch: First this, now this.
Mattingly definitely dipped into a kid's popcorn after going after a foul pop. I still remember the look on the kid's face.
ReplyDeleteLowell is such a goofball, as is Lugo. I wonder if these things are known nationwide.
What's great about that is he does in the middle of a tight 1-0 ballgame.
ReplyDeleteCreeping Mannyism. Great: now it looks like it's contagious. On my scale of inappropriate mid-game Player diversions, I would have to say that I like the high-five way, way better than stealing a cell-pnone. Next: picking a fan's pocket. After that: Feeling up his wife....
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, Jack. I hear Selig will soon issue an edict banning smiling, laughing, or any other outward show of emotion that might indicate that the player is enjoying himself.
ReplyDeleteSoon all major league players will be either dour sour-pusses or blank automatons. And all will be well.
Whew! THAT'S a relief!
ReplyDeleteDude! I saw him swipe that and had NO IDEA what the hell he took or why!
ReplyDelete" After that: Feeling up his wife...."
ReplyDeleteLet's leave Fritz Peterson out of this.
Let's leave Fritz Peterson out of this.
ReplyDeletePride and Pinstripes
Mattingly definitely dipped into a kid's popcorn after going after a foul pop. I still remember the look on the kid's face.
ReplyDeleteI remember that too! I didn't until I read this, then it came back to me. It was great.
Red Sox Birth Control Watch
Nice touch. :)
Creeping Mannyism.
ReplyDeleteJack, I love how you manage to complain about Manny even when Manny's not involved in the incident in any way.
Here's what I REALLY want to complain about, re Manny: I've been looking at tapes of Manny's at bat against Rivera and his at bats in other situations before and since. Much as I would like to think otherwise, it's hard not to conclude that he just tanked that at bat, for whatever reason. Even when Manny doesn't swing, he tenses, he waves, he shifts his weight, he's ready. Not against Rivera...not with the game on the line. He's just standing there. Does he object to having to pinch-hit? Is it a silent protest? I don't know, but boy, he was NOT engaged, and I think any fair observer would say the same. So in a key spot, in an important game, when Manny was asked to step up, he tuned out. What does that say? And how do the other players feel about that? I honestly don't know, but it's a hell of a lot more troubling than taking a leak during the game or giving a fan a high-five.
ReplyDeleteYou're making a HUGE assumption here, Jack. First you make the assumption, then you judge a person based on that assumption, as if it were fact.
ReplyDeleteYou're so over the top that you're becoming a parody of yourself.
It was a brutal at-bat. I don't know if you've noticed, but Mariano Rivera is having (yet another) superlative year. Few people are hitting him. Manny and Mo have faced each other many times over their careers. Sometimes Manny wins, sometimes Mo fools Manny and Manny ends up looking silly. That's baseball.
Most fans don't impugn a player's integrity over a bad at-bat, though. But then, you're not really a fan, are you? You're a critic.
why cant i see these videos? the links just send me to youtube main page.
ReplyDeleteand when i search, nothing...
They have been removed at the request of MLB.
ReplyDeleteGod forbid a 10-second clip of a game gets shown on the web and further promotes the game. We can't have that.
I did not save these clips to my hard drive.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone has them and can email them to me (or upload them somewhere), I will host them myself.
Laura, I don't see that making an informed assessment of a player's atypical performance justifies that kind of invective. Fans (and critics) judge things about players all the time, and legitimately so. Are they hustling? Are they upset? Rattled? I've seen a hell of a lot of ball games, and I think I have some basis for judgement. When Bob Bailey stood frozen as Rich Gossage pumped three fastballs past him in the 1978 play-off game, it was pretty obvious why: Bailey was through. He was old, and couldn't handle the heat. The assessment was based on the fact that I had watched him through his career, and that season. If it had been Jerry Remy standing there, I wouldn't have assumed it was because he was old, because then he wasn't.
ReplyDeleteManny invites such questions because he HAS tuned out in the past. He has refused to pinch-hit, too. His record as a pinch-hitter is beyond miserable for his whole career---is it a HUGE assumption (to quote your capitals) to suggest that he may just not like the role, and blows it off? I've been perusing the record book, and while lots of great hitters don't do so well as pinch-hitters, none that I could hind came even close to Manny in futility.
Just because baseball is a game that I love and the Sox are a team whose adventures have informed my life doesn't mean that I have to apply different standards to it and them than I do to every other pursuit and profession. I expect effort, competence, honesty, courage and trustworthiness. Too much to ask? I don't think so.
L-girl said...
ReplyDeleteYou're so over the top that you're becoming a parody of yourself.
That's funny
Jack, there was no invective in what I said.
ReplyDeleteI've seen a hell of a lot of ball games
We know. We know you've seen more games than anyone here. But you know what? That doesn't mean your judgements are any more sound or less biased or more trustworthy than anyone else's.
I expect effort, competence, honesty, courage and trustworthiness. Too much to ask? I don't think so.
Similarly, I expect these kinds of lectures from you, and you never disappoint.
Jack Marshall said...
ReplyDeleteLaura, I don't see that making an informed assessment of a player's atypical performance justifies that kind of invective.
Informed Assessment...what makes your opinon informed...When he hit that Home Run the other night to tie the game, I made an informed assessement that he was relieved and happy to finally see some success and his hard work pay off...
We all at some time in are life do not perform to our greastest abilitiies, we all strike out, we all fail , and we all get judged , but there is always another day to prove people wrong.....
Jack you went on to say:I expect effort, competence, honesty, courage and trustworthiness. Too much to ask? I don't think so.
Jack I love baseball and I love the Red Sox...But Jesus they are not your wife or your children....
What bothers me, and why I responded in the first place, is Jack's assumption that he knows Manny's motives and mindset.
ReplyDeleteWe all at some time in are life do not perform to our greastest abilitiies, we all strike out, we all fail , and we all get judged , but there is always another day to prove people wrong.....
And goddess knows, Manny has come through a lot more often than not, in baseball terms. I think he deserves - I think everyone deserves - the benefit of the doubt.
Jack, 9C's question about your "informed opinion", is the heart of the matter. You seem to believe your opinion is more informed than anyone else's, or at least anyone else here.
Just because Jack's opinion is unpopular doesn't mean he is incorrect. No one here knows what was on Manny's mind in the Rivera at bat, so is it so bad to wonder aloud if Manny was even trying?
ReplyDeleteAgree or disagree, but don't jump on Jack.
"New fans? Can't have that!" Indeed! I guess that counts as dissemination!
ReplyDeleteI recall a highlight of some player taking a bite, or something out of someone's pizza! Also I was at a Jay's/Royals game, in Toronto in 2005, and a kid dropped his sunglasses during BP, José Lima took the shades, and tried them on. I imagine he eventually returned them.
Just because Jack's opinion is unpopular doesn't mean he is incorrect.
ReplyDeleteOf course not. I am someone who often holds unpopular opinions, so I certainly know that.
Also I was at a Jay's/Royals game, in Toronto in 2005, and a kid dropped his sunglasses during BP, José Lima took the shades, and tried them on.
ReplyDeleteMannyitis is infecting the entire sport!
Patrick said...
ReplyDeleteAgree or disagree, but don't jump on Jack.
Jacks a big boy , He expects to called on his
Informed Assessement
Jack's "Informed Assessement" seems very close to mind-reading. Which, unless he has some special powers, is kinda the opposite of "informed".
ReplyDeleteAlso: Two of the pitches were borderline, pitches we have all seen Manny take, and called balls.
Also 2: Make a list of all major league players you have seen in your life who have NOT looked at what appeared on TV to be a perfect mashable pitch.
If your list is not blank, you're lying.
Wait a minute...since when is saying that one has an informed opinion a statement that it is better than anyone else's informed opinion? Obviously I believe in my own opinions. And even in the original post, I didn't assert certainty. I said it looks bad. And I am far from the only observer who suggested Manny looked oddly uninterested in that at bat. Informed means I have something to base it on. That's some kind of claim to infallibility?
ReplyDeleteSo if one says, "Lugo sucks," that's being a fan, but if one questions Manny Ramirez based on observation, logic and analysis, that's NOT being a fan. Got it.
Line up for your lobotomies, folks.
Character is part of the game...part of the game that I enjoy. These guys, as Bill James has written, are paid heroes. I've watched Manny a long time, and I respect his talent, but I wouldn't hire him to manage a hot dog stand, let him babysit my kid, or give him a letter to mail. Do I think this has some bearing on his value to the Red Sox? Damn right. And when the Sox don't pick up his option next season, don't think for a minute these incidents you all brush off---tangling with Youk, knocking down Jack Whathisname, high-fiving the fan, and looking like he was thinking about large-breasted women during his at bat against Rivera, won't have played a part in the decision. Baseball people think character matters, and they are right.
Wait a minute...since when is saying that one has an informed opinion a statement that it is better than anyone else's informed opinion?
ReplyDeleteIt's not.
But it's cumulative, Jack. People get tired of being lectured by the ethics police.
Baseball people think character matters, and they are right.
We are all baseball people here, Jack.
"Character" is a purely subjective, randomly applied, amorphoous category - used when it suits the person making the point, discarded when it doesn't - and often based on pure imagination.
Remember, this post was about something goofy that Mike Lowell did. But did you question Lowell's character? No. You called Mike's amusing antics "Mannyitis" and went on to question Manny's character, because you supposedly know what he was thinking during an at-bat.
I'm just sick of it.
Jack Marshall said...
ReplyDeletelooking like he was thinking about large-breasted women during his at bat against Rivera,
I beleive he was actually thinking about mailing a Hot Dog to your Baby-Sitter.
The more glaring fact here is that Jack attempts to get into the head of Manny , and assume he knows what Manny is thinking.......Jack has said , in so many words, time and time again Manny and him don't have the same work ethic or thought process so how can Jack even attempt to break down what Manny is thinking when all of Manny's "antics" are incomprehensible to him?
ReplyDeleteI think Many would be possibly the coolest babysitter of all time.
ReplyDeleteAnd to say he couldn't find a mailbox implies he's unintelligent. Where does this come from? I think it's the same reason cops bothered me when I had a mohawk.
I didn't say he couldn't FIND a mailbox. I said I wouldn't trust him to mail a letter. Christ, read the words.
ReplyDeleteThe position popular with some that "character" is just a lot of high-faluting words and unfair expectations is the perverse opinion here, not mine. The "mind-reading" argument is just code for "who are you to judge anyone by their behavior?", an ill-advised social attitide if I ever heard one. I won't annoy Laura by engaging in another "lecture" here (you might place on JOS's dictionary the definition of "lecture" as any discourse on matters---cheating in baseball, unprofessional conduct---that relatesthe conduct of baseball players to standards of conduct that are important off the baseball field), but life requires all of us to make certain assumptions based on experience and analysis, and that indeed, could be way off the mark. Sure: maybe Manny had a headache; maybe he assuemd that last pitch would be wasted. Maybe he did the best he can. Your inclination, Lauram being a professed "If Manny attacks an old guy and knocks him down, there had to be some good reason for it" Manny Right Or Wrong FAN, is to ASSUME he was doing his best. (You have to ASSUME something, you know...because you aren't a mind-reader either---(are you?))
My assessment is different, doesn't have a pro-Manny bias (OR anti-Manny: I'd rather have him than not have him), was based on some thought, and is extrapolated from well-known incidents like his taking a vacation for the last month in 2006.
For that I get a PERSONAL attack, as I have before ("you sound like an old man"..."you're not really a fan"..."you sound like a parody of yourself"). Not warranted, and pretty pathetic argument technique, if you ask me. Attack the arguer, not the argument. How DARE anyone suggest Mannyisms aren't always cute and cuddly and harmless!!!
My interest and enjoyment of the Boston Red Sox has always been anchored to my appreciation of the character (or lack of it) displayed
by major league players under pressure, carrying the burden of the devotion of fans like those who post here. I'm a professional ethicist, I believe, in part BECAUSE of the Boston Red Sox, so my perspective is a little different. If you don't like it (as Laura has said many times, in her own moments of self-parody) don't read it. Me, I rather enjoy reading stuff I disagree with. Sometimes I learn something.
"you're not really a fan"..."you sound like a parody of yourself"). Not warranted, and pretty pathetic argument technique, if you ask me.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't intended to be an argument technique. It was merely my informed opinion. My observation.
An observation I stand by, and which you bolster with every post.
(as Laura has said many times, in her own moments of self-parody)
ReplyDeleteOoo, snap. Good one, Jack. You sure put me in my place.
Or is that poor argument technique? I don't remember.
I wouldn't hire him to manage a hot dog stand, let him babysit my kid, or give him a letter to mail. Do I think this has some bearing on his value to the Red Sox? Damn right.
ReplyDeleteWhy would the Boston Red Sox, in determining Manny Ramirez's value to the franchise, consider your refusal to hire him as hot dog stand manager a worthwhile piece of information?
I could write a parody post from almost every poster here. Andy? Easy. Casey? No problem. Nixon? Fuck, yes. Jere? Amy? Sure. And I've been easy to parody since I was 10. The insult is suggesting that I'm any different in that respect from everyone else. (Except Allan. Haven't figured him out yet.)
ReplyDeleteYour horse is at least as high as mine, Laura...you just don't acknowledge it.
Baseball people think character matters, and they are right.
ReplyDeleteKey Q: **How much** does it matter?
100%? 68%? 10%?
Also, "baseball people" are a varied bunch and do not think alike.
Perhaps taking me a biiiit too literally?
ReplyDeleteBut to answer your question: they don't trust him either. That's the common element.
Re "How much?"
ReplyDeleteYou are right. No consensus there at all. The Yankees, for instance, don't care that much, based on using Sir Sidney.
Now off to do a real lecture. I'd rather watch the game, believe me.
Jack: While I do not have the time or inclination to do the work, I'll bet a review of your comments this season would reveal a man who does not have much good to say about the 2008 Red Sox.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe you only feel the need to post when things annoy you -- a mindset I certainly understand.
I could write a parody post from almost every poster here. Andy? Easy. Casey? No problem. Nixon? Fuck, yes. Jere? Amy? Sure. ... (Except Allan. Haven't figured him out yet.)
ReplyDeleteNow that might be a fun exercise.
(Oh, bullshit. Use some dashes, praise Pedro, throw in an "apparently" or two and be somewhat reporterly, and there you are.)
Perhaps taking me a biiiit too literally?
ReplyDeleteNot at all. You gave no indication of making a joke.
I've watched Manny a long time, and I respect his talent, but I wouldn't hire him to manage a hot dog stand, let him babysit my kid, or give him a letter to mail. Do I think this has some bearing on his value to the Red Sox? Damn right.
And then you said
Christ, read the words.
So I did.
Lowell:
ReplyDelete"If it was his wallet it would have been better ... If it was his wallet I would have kept it in my pocket until the end of the game and then I would have given it back to him."
Why can't everyone see the fun in this?
And this?
It's nice that you could parody other commenters, Jack. I'm sure many people here can do that, too - and sometimes we do, in gamethreads.
ReplyDeleteBut self-parody is generally unintentional. That's what makes it either so hilarious or so annoying, or both.
Whether or not I'm on a high horse and whether or not I admit it or don't, doesn't change what you wrote and my observations about it.
Lowell:
ReplyDelete"If it was his wallet it would have been better ... If it was his wallet I would have kept it in my pocket until the end of the game and then I would have given it back to him."
Why can't everyone see the fun in this?
And why can't someone see that it was LOWELL and Manny had nothing to do with it?!
Where does this come from? I think it's the same reason cops bothered me when I had a mohawk.
ReplyDeleteThe two are definitely related.
redsock said...
ReplyDeleteI could write a parody post from almost every poster here.
(Oh, bullshit. Use some dashes,
If that's for me .they are actually peroids........
Manny gets ripped in the media and by Red Sox fans all the time.....and Josh Hamilton is becoming a media and fan darling.....But they both I believe got voted to all star team , we like em bad........
ReplyDeleteIf that's for me .they are actually peroids........
No, Jack says he could write in the style of anyone here except me.
I said bullshit (meaning, it's not hard to sound like me) and said you'd have to use dashes -- which I use a lot of.
"Christ, read the words."
ReplyDeletePlease don't compare me to Jesus. The guy clearly has no character, what with his long hair, loose-fitting clothes, powerful wooden stick, and his way of "floating" through life.