November 19, 2009

Bay Rejects Boston's 4/60 Offer

Not a surprise, as Theo Epstein said.

He may end up back in Fenway, but at age 31, Bay wants to see what is out there in the free agent waters.

Terry Francona held court on a number of matters, including Bay:
He has earned the right to be a free agent. This is his first time, and he wants to see it through. You know we're going to be a major player. We always are. Do I hope it gets done? Yeah.
The Red Sox's exclusive rights to negotiate with Bay end at midnight tonight.

While Tito would like the Sox to go after some pitching (like John Lackey), David Ortiz says the team needs a power bat:
I said that like a year ago and everybody was looking at me like I was a (expletive) clown. You know? I said we needed another 30-home run hitter. Everybody was talking trash. There you go. Now what? ... You want to compete with those guys across the street? You better bring it. Period.
The Sox have asked Atlanta for the medical records of free agent relievers Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano.

17 comments:

FenFan said...

Holliday may be the better overall player but I believe Bay will return to Boston. I think the Sox would be willing to pay in the range of $17M-$18M per season and I don't think he's going to be offered much more than that.

Interesting article regarding both players' defensive abilities over on ESPN.com.

9casey said...

Is Papi saying we need a 30 HR guy because he can no longer be one?

James said...

I'd rather see Figgins + Mike Cameron than Bay, to be honest. I didn't really like our defense last year, and these players would represent a big step up, while just about making up for Lowell and Bay's offense.

I doubt it will happen, but I'd love to see it.

9casey said...

Lowell and Bay had 53 hr's and 194 rbi's .......Cameron and Figgins had 29 hr's and 124 , how does that mkae up for Lowell and Bay , they would bat 7th and 8th in our lineup.

Philip said...

Casey: HRs and RBIs are but one facet of offense, and not the most important part.

9casey said...

Philip said...
Casey: HRs and RBIs are but one facet of offense, and not the most important part.



Thanks for the education but they are actually 2 facets, and I could have gone right down the line and they still don't compare , just took a couple of big ones......

SoSock said...

I want Bay back - period. And HR & RBI may not be all there is, but in the middle of your line-up, they're awfully damn important, and if you replace a 4 and a 5, or a 5 and 6, depending on the day, with a 1 or 2 and a 7, you still have to go get a 4 or 5.
Holliday may be pretty much an even trade, but I think it will be easier to resign someone who has expressed a liking for the club, than to go compete with everyone else for a new face.
And Casey, I sure as hell hope that's not what Papi meant. I would hope he meant we need 2 in the order who can do that, as it was in the Manny days. (he says wistfully)

9casey said...

SoSock said...

And Casey, I sure as hell hope that's not what Papi meant. I would hope he meant we need 2 in the order who can do that, as it was in the Manny days. (he says wistfully)




We had Bay

9casey said...

Philip said...
Casey: HRs and RBIs are but one facet of offense, and not the most important part.




Can you back that up? before you go all Bill James on me....

James said...

The combined batting average and OBP of Figgins and Cameron is considerably better than that of Bay and Lowell, and, although the power is considerably worse, the defense is significantly better. Also, I'd imagine that Figgins and Cameron would, together, cost less than Bay, and if you could move Lowell without taking on his salary, you'd save some money in the long run.

Plus you'd be adding something like 40 stolen bases, which would make up for some of the lost power.

Now, to go all Bill James on you, in WARP, Figgins put up a 6.3 and Cameron put up a 4.8, while Bay put up a 4.4 and Lowell put up a 1.5, so according to Baseball Prospectus the Figgins-Cameron combo is worth 11.1 wins, whereas Bay and Lowell is worth 5.9 wins, so you'd be upgrading your team by about 4 wins, while likely reducing team salary and giving you money to sign a reliever, or a shortstop, or what have you.

9casey said...

James said...
The combined batting average and OBP of Figgins and Cameron is considerably better than that of Bay and Lowell,


Considerably? ok..Mike Cameron hit .250 and k'd 156 times in the National League, since when do you need a above avg. type to play left filed in Fenway, and this is the first time I actually heard anyone bash Bay for his defense.

Figgins is overrated and if we got him he would bat 7-9 in our lineup.




James also said:

Plus you'd be adding something like 40 stolen bases, which would make up for some of the lost power.



Since when do those two relate?


in essesnce you want to become the Red Sox to become a NL team .

9casey said...

Sign bay and Get Halladay.....that has to add up to more wins than Cameron and Figgins.....

9casey said...

James said...
while likely reducing team salary and giving you money to sign a reliever, or a shortstop, or what have you.




Is there a cap?

9casey said...

9casey said...



in essesnce you want to become the Red Sox to become a NL team .




That statement made sense in my head........

James said...

There's no official cap, but the Red Sox have limited resources, and can only afford so much. If you sign Bay long term, maybe you can't resign Beckett.

The stolen bases make up for power in that they allow you to get into scoring position after hitting singles. Also, speed lets you do things like go first to third, or score from second on a single, etc. All of which makes up for some of the run production you lose with the lack of power.

I don't want the Red Sox to become an NL team, but I'd like them to address last years' big issues. Last year the Red Sox scored the third most runs in the AL, behind only the Yankees and Angels. In terms of runs allowed per game, the Red Sox were third as well, behind only the Mariners and Red Sox.

But in terms of defense, we were second to last in terms of DER (the ratio of ball in play converted into outs), in front of only the Royals. And the worst fielders on the team were our left fielders, third basemen, and shortstops. If we can upgrade our outfield and infield defensively, we can really do a lot of good. Remember, when we won in 2007, we were first in DER.

9casey said...

James said...


I don't want the Red Sox to become an NL team, but I'd like them to address last years' big issues.



I will always be a firm believer in pitching wins championships and there was a point in the season last year when our 4 and 5 guys just didn't perform and also a stretch where Beckett didn't perform and Lester struggled in the beginning...I don't think our DER is our biggest problem, they add Halladay keep Bay and Lowell but lose Clay, it will be a dogfight.. and that DER has alot to do with pitching .

James said...

But don't you think the crummy defense might have had a little something to do with why "4 of our 5 guys just didn't perform?" When you've only got three consistently good fielders in the field (Youk, Pedroia, and Drew), and everyone else is routinely and frequently turning outs into singles, singles into doubles, and doubles into triples, your pitching is going to suffer. Let Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, and Buchholz pitch with a good defense behind them, and that's the core to a championship-level staff.