We're all frustrated. We got outplayed. ... They did everything good. We didn't. ... We got outpitched, we got out-hit, they played better defense than us. They kicked our ass, that's it. We better show up and play better on whatever day we play again.Terry Francona:
We're not very happy with the series. That's an understatement. I think there's a difference between being aggravated at a series as opposed to sitting around and panic enters.Adrian Gonzalez:
I'm fully confident that, come September, we'll be either in first place or right in the middle of everything.Clay Buchholz:
I don't think these guys missed a mistake pitch for 27 innings. ... I think everybody's a little bit shocked. But we have a lot of games left ... I wouldn't read too deep into it.Theo Epstein:
Anytime you get swept and outplayed like that and you do have a good team, you're surprised. ... It's one series under the magnifying glass because it's the first one out of the chute.And I might as well make the same comparison everyone else is:
1998 Yankees - Began 0-3 - Outscored 6 - 21 - Finished 114-48 2011 Red Sox - Began 0-3 - Outscored 11 - 26 - Finished ?
The Sox hitched their wagon to Saltalamacchia, and his strong spring reinforced their evaluation.In one of the weekend game threads, I wondered (half-jokingly) when the Boston media would decide that the Red Sox's rough start was because the pitchers could not rely on the pitching calling from the computer mind of Varitek.
Three poor games haven't changed that, but fans are wondering about the team's faith in him ... Saltalamacchia needs to prove he's a worthy successor [to Jason Varitek].
Tough to do when you've started the season 0 for 10 and when the staff you're handling has allowed 26 runs, 34 hits, and 11 homers in a three-game sweep ...
Last September, Cafardo wrote a bizarre column about Salty, one filled with speculation, innuendo and psychobabble from a doctor who, as I noted here,
has never met Saltalamacchia, never spoken to him, never examined him, knows absolutely nothing about his personal life or his baseball career, and has never read any report (or even read about a possible report) from any doctor or psychologist who might have actually met with Salty.In today's column, Cafardo again puts Salty on the couch.
Saltalamacchia didn't have the best of times when he was a Ranger, and perhaps he wanted so badly to perform well against his old team that it worked in reverse. ...Shouldn't the clock be ticking on Cafardo's writing career? Put him in front of a keyboard and he's Cesar Crespo in a slump. He's roster filler for a Class A team.
When baseball people assess the Sox, they always question why the Sox have so much faith in Saltalamacchia. And at this point the team has to be all in with him because it has no real alternative. ... The clock is now ticking.
Cafardo is not very good but I don't think it's outrageous to ask the question "did Saltalamacchia press against his old club?" That would be a reasonable possibility.
ReplyDeleteFrankly I have no faith in Saltalamacchia but 3 games isn't enough to draw a meaningful conclusion.
Cafardo is not very good but I don't think it's outrageous to ask the question "did Saltalamacchia press against his old club?"
ReplyDeleteThat alone would not be an unreasonable question, but that hardly describes Cafardo's take.
Frankly I have no faith in Saltalamacchia
I'm curious what that is based on. Could you elaborate? Thanks.
Salty has yet to prove himself on this level. So far there has not been much to balance the hype. And why couldn't the pitching woes be due to Salty's calls? Does he not call pitches? If he does not then why is he back there? This isn't Pedro or Schill or even Beckett. If the catcher is not calling pitches he doesn't belong back there. If he is calling them he sucks. Needs some work. Long way to go. Not giving up on him. Maybe Tek should sit in the stands off to the side so he can send in hand signals to Salty.
ReplyDeleteIf he is calling them he sucks. Needs some work. Long way to go. Not giving up on him. Maybe Tek should sit in the stands off to the side so he can send in hand signals to Salty.
ReplyDeleteYeah, because the pitching was perfect with Tek behind the plate. /sarcasm.
And when it wasn't, it was never Captain Teflon's fault. /not sarcasm
Three games. THREE games. How about giving the guy a chance?
Has everyone forgotten Pedroia's start?
This isn't Pedro or Schill or even Beckett.
ReplyDeleteLester and Lackey are not green rookies afraid of shaking off a catcher's sign or discussing sequences in the dugout before the game or between innings. If they are blindly accepting signs from Salty and throwing pitches they have little confidence in, they are idiots.
And even if we think Buchholz is more of a noob, he actually turned in the best outing of the three.
If the catcher is not calling pitches he doesn't belong back there.
We can't have them go to the backstop every time. ... Don't the Sox call pitches from the dugout some (or a lot) of the time?
Kevin Cash had the lowest ERA of all the catchers last year. He is likely available - and we don't care much about Salty's bat.
Yeah, because the pitching was perfect with Tek behind the plate. /sarcasm.
Our staff's ERA with Tek behind the plate was 0.00. Every single year. BRef is your friend.
But, seriously, speaking of Pedro -- here's one game I can't forget. Opening Day 2002. Pedro (3 innings, 9 hits, 8 runs to the Jays). His catcher? Varitek. (later that year, Tek caught a 19-7 loss to the Rangers, a 10-3 loss to the Mariners, and a 10-2 loss to the Yankees.)
Salty may not have all of his shit together, but he didn't leave all those fat pitches in the heart of the zone to be murderized all over (and beyond) the fucking park.
I am reserving judgment on Salty because I think it is unfair to make any judgments about any player this early in the season.
ReplyDeleteBut why minimize Tek's contributions in defending Salty? Yes, he was not as effective at the plate over the last few years, and there were lots of games where the team lost when he pitched. But a catcher cannot be responsible when a pitcher has a bad night, and overall I think Tek has earned his reputation as a top notch catcher. Certainly the Red Sox pitching staff thinks so.
Yeah, I am just a little sad to see his career ending. And yeah, I am not happy with the season so far. :(
But why minimize Tek's contributions in defending Salty?
ReplyDeleteBecause I have always felt his talents and abilities were over-rated.
Agreed, Allan. Apparently, people are happy to listen to Lackey's excuses where he blames everything except himself and take that as truth written in stone while they happily question everything about The Catcher Replacing The Captain Of The Red Sox.
ReplyDeleteJesus H. Christ.
But why minimize Tek's contributions in defending Salty?
ReplyDeleteI don't think I did. I was trying to point out that the criticisms of Salty's performance in G1-3 are things that every catcher on Earth could be criticized for. So either rip them all or give the man some breathing room.
But a catcher cannot be responsible when a pitcher has a bad night
He should get roughly the same amount of blame for a pitcher's bad start as he gets praise for a pitcher's good start. (I wonder has anyone attempted to quantify if it should be something other than 50-50?)
A lot of what could be seen as anti-Tek stuff here is actually anti-the national media that has Jeterized him over the last 4-5 years.
I agree that the blame and the credit that goes to a catcher can both be overstated in terms of a specific game. But I do think that when the team's pitchers say that a particular catcher is helpful, calls a good game, etc., that this is credible evidence of the catcher's contribution to the pitching staff.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the media exaggerated his contributions. But I don't think his teammates would.
And I certainly wouldn't put him on a pedestal. His contributions don't measure up to those of Papi or Pedro or Manny or Schilling in 2004, for example, but for a catcher, I think he has been a solid and consistent contributor over the years.
Let's hope Salty can fill his shoes. And then some!
That series takes me back a decade or two when the Sox would go into Arlington and be lucky to win one game. Just sad.
ReplyDeleteAstute observation on the media jeter machine From my phone it wanted to change jeter to heterosexual. I actually only typed jeter it just gives me heterosexual. Funny.
ReplyDeleteA pitcher should be exposed to more blame for losses and always get more for wins. They have to place the ball where the catcher says. A catcher could call a perfect game and the pitcher blows it by leaving one up. The catcher calls a bad pitch and it is on target there is still a pretty good chance it wont be struck.
So, apparently the solution to the Rays not getting a new stadium is to get rid of the team. Somehow, I don't see this happening, ever.
ReplyDeleteTexas is winning again tonight... Nelson Cruz hit a dong.
ReplyDeleteI'm looking at that series as Texas was just amazing and the Red Sox slow getting out of the gate.
Sweeps suck, but whatever. Not too concerned.
Nelson Cruz hit a dong.
ReplyDeleteAn HR in each of the first 4 games of a season ties a record.
Mays in 1971
McGwire in 1998
Cruz in 2011
allan said...
ReplyDeleteA lot of what could be seen as anti-Tek stuff here is actually anti-the national media that has Jeterized him over the last 4-5 years.
The difference being Tek plays for us. He is a Red Sock and you have been on him for years even after championships, but few have reservations about Salty and you turn against Tek, that I don't understand.
Jeterized should i take that to mean someone who does things on a baseball filed that can not be quantified into stat?
If thats what it is than Tek has it.
Theo has had a hard on for Salty for years, just like he had one for Wily Mo .
I don't know much but I believe Salty will turn out much more like Wily Mo than Tek.....
laura k said...
But why minimize Tek's contributions in defending Salty?
Because I have always felt his talents and abilities were over-rated.
Thats absurd. Overrated by whom? The Media, The pitchers, His teamates, fans...... Not the front office because he has made 40 mil less than Posada in his career and if I have to pick one in his prime, I choose Tek, but that just might be my Red Sox bias....
self disclosure - i haven't gone to fan graphs yet to see what the Rangers hit and I only got to see the first two games on TV... had to listen to the third one on the radio.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that - it looked to me like the Rangers were "locked in" the entire series. I think that several of their hits - including home runs - were actually very good pitches by the Sox (and - by inference - called by Salty). I know we made some pitches that pretty much any major leaguer could / would hit and they took advantage of pretty much all of them... and then some that they should have made outs on.
To me it was "one of those series" where the other team took advantage of all of our mistakes and happened to get hits / home runs on pitches that normally induce outs.
Over 162 games every team has those types of series. It just sucks that it happened in our first series of the year.
Salty may be an issue before the year is out (I don't think he will be). But I'm not ready to lay any of this on him now.
A lot of what could be seen as anti-Tek stuff here is actually anti-the national media that has Jeterized him over the last 4-5 years.
ReplyDeleteSome of my anti-Tek stuff is definitely that.
Thats absurd. Overrated by whom? The Media, The pitchers, His teamates, fans......
All of the above. Why is that absurd?
I don't care how much he made, that is not a factor for me in how I feel about any player, never has been, never will be.
"Turn against?" My opinion of him is unchanged - I've always thought he was over-rated.
you have been on him for years even after championships, but few have reservations about Salty and you turn against Tek, that I don't understand.
ReplyDeleteI'm not entirely sure what "on him" refers to. If it's looking at his performance critically and admitting there are flaws, then, sure.
As far as SASAHE, it annoys me greatly and I'd be just as annoyed if anyone else did it. I have been "on" Yook and Ortiz for years about whining at the umpire, and "on" many other players for various bone-headed things.
Jeterized should i take that to mean someone who does things on a baseball filed that can not be quantified into stat?
I thought I was using it in the way Posnanski does, but when I looked at his definition -- "to praise someone for something which he or she is entirely unworthy of praise" -- I realize that I misunderstood the word.
I was defining it as "to praise someone for something out of proportion to how much it actually exists or its actual value". And despite what is on Pos's site, I'll bet that it closer to how he sees it, too.
To say that Tek is "entirely unworthy of praise" is nonsense. And if I have ever said that, I was dead wrong. He's been a very good catcher and was an excellent hitter through 2005. After that, he's been a below league average hitter -- and his career OPS is now at 99 (with 100 being league average).
(Varitek's best OPS+ season was 123. Posada's career OPS+ is 123. ... In his MVP season, Pedroia was 122 and last year Teixeira was 125.)
And there may have not been a whole lot of alternatives, but yes, I think they have hung onto him for too long. So? He's not the first and won't be the last Sox player I think that about.
does things on a baseball filed that can not be quantified into stat?
If he works better with pitchers that other catchers, that should show up in stats. Pitchers should have a better ERA with him catching -- or fewer walks and dongs allowed -- then someone else. There is CERA -- catcher's ERA -- but I would think there's a lot of noise in that data, though I haven't really looked into it). Other things -- fewer PB, throwing out runners -- are in stats.
The problem with the intangible stuff is that it is simply the opinion of players and we've listened to enough players on ESPN, Fox, et al., to know that they lack understanding about various parts of the game.
I do not doubt that Varitek does his homework and is very helpful and instructive with his pitchers -- I would hope every catcher is, but he may be better than most -- but no pitcher (on the Sox now or in the past) is going to say he was meh or he's overrated or anything like that, certainly not when he is still playing.
I should hope no player is off-limits to criticism. I also think that within the JoS community, we would all understand that we can criticize a player and still see his value. It's not all or nothing. I've always thought Varitek was over-rated, but that doesn't mean I think he's worthless!
ReplyDeleteFWIW, I thought "Jeterize" meant praising out of proportion to actual value.
Maybe the media exaggerated his contributions. But I don't think his teammates would.
ReplyDeleteI would take anything players say publicly about another player with a full shaker of salt.
allan said...
ReplyDeleteThe problem with the intangible stuff is that it is simply the opinion of players and we've listened to enough players on ESPN, Fox, et al., to know that they lack understanding about various parts of the game.
Allan I understand when it come to this issue arguing with you is futile....
I believe I could be your neighbor, call you up tell you your house is on fire.. And if I dont show you pictures and a rate of burn graph , you just wont believe me.
Somethings are just intangible as much as you seem like you cant stand it , it is just true.
I believe I could be your neighbor, call you up tell you your house is on fire.. And if I dont show you pictures and a rate of burn graph , you just wont believe me.
ReplyDeleteAfter hearing your message (which I'll compare to hearing a claim by a sportswriter/announcer), I would look around the house, smell for smoke*, and go outside to get a better look at the overall situation.
In other words, I would investigate what I heard, to see if it was true. I would (quickly) gather more accurate data, and decide if you were correct or not.
* You can usually smell if something is burning. As far as I know, intangibles do not give off any type of odor, but I have never stood right next to Derek Jeter.
Somethings are just intangible as much as you seem like you cant stand it , it is just true.
Just because someone says something "is just true" does not make it true. I've heard that humans have been on the earth for only 6,000 years, dinosaurs never existed, and Bill Clinton didn't inhale. I don't believe any of those things.
I understand when it come to this issue arguing with you is futile....
ReplyDeleteI did not think we were having an argument.
But having an argument is easy. It's having the other person come around to your way of thinking based on some blog comments that's likely futile.
"...but few have reservations about Salty..."
ReplyDeleteMaybe I've been following hockey too much this winter, but isn't this the guy who can't hit and can't throw to second base?
As in, "Runner to second on catcher indifference"?
I guess I have more faith in what players say about each other than some do. I have heard too many pitchers talk about how well prepared Tek is, how he studies each batter and has a game plan for each pitcher. I am not sure how true that is for all catchers, including Salty. Time will tell.
ReplyDeleteAs you know, I am a catcher fan from way back. I even liked Yogi Berra and Johnny Bench, even though they were not in my teams. I believe that the catcher plays a big role in the game in addition to catching and calling balls and strikes. He sits behind the plate with a full view of the field and often is the one who tells the fielders where to stand, etc. I don't know how much Tek did that, but I assume some. They did make him the captain, after all.
Obviously, we all have different opinions. I hate Papelbon while others still love him. I was sorry to lose Alex Gonzalez (twice!) and Orlando Cabrera, but most people seem to think they were not worth keeping. And so on.
And yes, like 9Casey, I do believe in intangibles that may not be measurable by statistics alone. Call me a romantic. I can handle it! :)
And yes, like 9Casey, I do believe in intangibles that may not be measurable by statistics alone.
ReplyDeleteWell, so do I. The problem for me is that intangibles are often described as "playing the game the right way" and "knowing how to win" and "inspiring teammates to do great things simply be sitting on the bench". That's all bullshit. I'm not saying anyone here necessarily subscribes to those cliches, but that is often how they are talked about.
Others talk about how moving a runner from 1st to third or how many times a guy scores from second on a singe are intangibles because they do not show up in a box score. That is true, those things are not in the traditional box score, but that doesn't mean various websites don't keep track of it and have the information available for everyone to see. BRef has boatloads of incredible stuff like this.
We know a lot more now about how the Red Sox prepare players for the majors and playing under a microscope in Boston, or how they target players they think will do well in a big market. That could be an intangible -- and it absolutely exists.