It's a drag to see the Snuffer go, but even with his stupendous performance in 2011, it was all but certain the Red Sox would not commit the kind of dough Papelbon wanted. Bot resisted signing a long-term deal with the Red Sox earlier in his career and he made it clear on several occasions that he wanted to test the free agent market.
Papelbon, who turns 31 this month, collected 219 saves in seven seasons with the Red Sox. In 27 post-season innings, he allowed only three runs (1.00 ERA), all of them coming against the Angels in Game 3 of the 2009 ALDS.
In 14.2 ALCS and WS innings, he allowed 0.48 baserunners per inning (excluding intentional walks). He recorded seven post-season saves, including Games 2, 3, and 4 of Boston's 2007 World Series sweep of the Rockies.
Daniel Bard is the likely man to step into Boston's closer shoes, and he will cost approximately 4% of Papelbon's 2012 salary. Bard's WHIP has dropped every year (1.277, 1.004, 0.959), although he seems to have a mental block (or extremely shitty luck) when it comes to saving games. In his three-year career, he has blown 15 of 20 save attempts.
Not surprised. Not sad. I may live to regret saying this, but despite his return to form this season, I won't miss him.
ReplyDeleteKnobler of CBS says a source says the Red Sox have not committed to Bard and will look at Madson and Heath Bell. Exploring all options, in other words.
ReplyDeleteNot surprised. Not sad. I may live to regret saying this, but despite his return to form this season, I won't miss him.
ReplyDeleteReally????
/sarcasm
Allan & I thought this might be one of the happiest days of your life.
The Red Sox at times seem like they are a midmarket team . In my opinion 4 fo 50 seems like a reasonable deal for him.
ReplyDeleteSometimes the apathy they show for proven players on the roster aggravates me.
How is Papi not signed yet or are we looking for a 4th ouutfielder slash DH. We are not the Mariners spent the godamn money like it isnt yours......
We are going to regret not signing Pap,but I hope I am wrong...
Sigh. 2011 really was the end of an era.
ReplyDeleteNot surprised the Sox will look at Madson and Bell. Brad Lidge is also on the market - he's old, but he could maybe fill the gap for a year or two. There were a lot of rumors of him coming to the Sox in 2007.
I'm not sure what I think of this. He will be missed.
ReplyDeleteNot really a surprise (that he's leaving) given all he's said over the years. Too bad Jenks was such a disaster. Theo was certainly on to something. Maybe, unlike Cameron, the Sox will get something out of his (Jenks) second year. Or maybe Ben will prove luckier at building 'pen depth (and finding shortstops) than his predecessor.
ReplyDeleteLet's get a manager, bench coach and pitching coach hired and get this off-season rolling!1!!1.
Maybe Gagne is available.
ReplyDeleteI guess I've been expecting this particular development for so long (Paps leaving and to the Phillies) that I don't feel anything about it.
ReplyDeleteI'll miss his innings, even if he was never quite as invincible as after the first couple seasons. I guess now I won't have to root for him in spite of his fratboy antics. And at least he didn't go to the MFYs.
Actually, I am not happy per se. I just don't care that much. Yes, he was great when he was great, but his attitude and his arrogance just annoyed the hell out of me. And when he blew a save, it always infuriated me.
ReplyDeleteI know that I am old-fashioned in this way, but frankly he always struck me as out for himself, not for the team, and this quick departure and his refusal to consider a long term contract all along is just more evidence of that.
So, yeah, I am not happy because I don't know how well Bard can do in his place or anyone else, but I won't miss that face. I hope Papelbon blows every save in the 2012 World Series when we beat Philadelphia in four games.
Amy, there's nothing old-fashioned about that. I'm sure many people share your view.
ReplyDeleteI'll miss him, for sure. I don't understand why the Sox wouldn't sign him. As 9C said, Philadelphia didn't give him the sun and the moon. I hope this doesn't prove to be a huge mistake.
ReplyDeletePapelbon wasn't perfect but closers of his calibre are hard to come by. I never paid much attention to him on a personal level, so his bullshit didn't bother me (although he's certainly not my favourite type of player).
Philadelphia seems like a juggernaut now. Of course I thought that last year, like many people, thinking a Sox vs Phillies WS was a strong possibility.
Pap had a great 2011. Because he was auditioning for the other 31 teams out there. (He's probably hoping they're not looking at his post-season performance of late.)
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, Jon Lester tweeted today that he was looking forward to getting back into training. I hope he's serious.
I wish he had tried a little hard to impress his suitors in G162.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Gagne is available.
ReplyDeleteI am utterly certain he is available.
Some of you wont miss his "personality" or the shit he said.
ReplyDeleteThe guy never backed down or ran away from an interview and supported his teamates, yeah I'm glad he is gone too, it sucked watching him dance with such vigor and happiness after they won the pennant and the world series, personalties arent for baseball players anyway, how dare he......
Plain and simple he is an elite closer and if we couldnt have Mo give me Pap.
The people who wont miss him, your ignorance is friggin blinding....
I don't understand why the Sox wouldn't sign him.
ReplyDeleteI thougth he'd get a tad closer to 15 per. Which is nutso money for a reliever, though he is one of the few near-sure things. I believe they also had concerns about his shoulder.
What I will not miss:
ReplyDelete(a) his post-final-pitch-for-the-save jackoff fist pumps.
That's about it.
I hated that also. Mostly I won't miss his blown saves. And there was no equivalent sign that he took on the responsibility for losing the game to match those obnoxious fist pumps.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with 9C. I hated the fist pumps and he sure did seem like a fratboy, but jesus christ, we don't have to hang out with the guy. Mo being unavailable, Papelbon is the next best thing (albeit a huge gap between them).
ReplyDeleteMostly I won't miss his blown saves.
ReplyDeleteIf you find a closer who doesn't blow saves, please let us know!
bat has done it for WAY longer than bot - 17 years to 7 - but re career numbers, there is not that much difference between them (reg. season only).
ReplyDeleteera
bat - 2.21
bot - 2.33
whip
bat - 0.998
bot - 1.018
save %
bat - 89%
bot - 88%
Impressive stats. And just to incur 9casey's wrath, I will just say that it's too bad that he doesn't have one half of one percent of Rivera's dignity, modesty, and class.
ReplyDeletebat has done it for WAY longer than bot
ReplyDeleteIt's the longevity and consistency that make Mo unique, obviously.
But wow, that's an incredible comparison. Philly... wow.
I will just say that it's too bad that he doesn't have one half of one percent of Rivera's dignity, modesty, and class.
ReplyDeleteI agree, but to be fair, closers generally run more to the Bot style than the Rivera style. Pitchers tend to be an arrogant lot, I think it very often comes with the territory, and closers are the worst of the bunch.
Cherington:
ReplyDelete"We never made an offer ... To this point it's been clear where we see it, what we would be willing to do at this point in the offseason, given what our other needs are and given what we feel the alternatives are, is not something that matched up with what Pap was looking for. Because of that we haven't made a formal offer. I've seen the news out there today and it wouldn't surprise me if that happens."
Cherington said that Papelbon's representatives didn't give the Red Sox a chance to match the Phillies off, though he didn't feel that was necessary.
*****
it's too bad that he doesn't have one half of one percent of Rivera's dignity, modesty, and class.
ReplyDeleteI ran the numbers. He's got 18.4%.
Cherington's saying, We're not paying top dollar for a closer. We're already paying top dollar for a lot of players.
ReplyDeleteWe developed him ourselves, got several great years from him, and don't have the risk that he'll fall off. He'd have to be as good as he has been for four more years -- hardly a certainty. So, we did well with Papelbon. He pushed to get top free-agent money, and he made it. Doesn't mean we have to be the ones to pay him.
On an emotional level, it would sting more if his last appearance had been successful.
I smell another bridge year coming.
ReplyDelete(...don' necessarily disagree with letting Pap walk tho)
Amy said...
ReplyDeleteImpressive stats. And just to incur 9casey's wrath, I will just say that it's too bad that he doesn't have one half of one percent of Rivera's dignity, modesty, and class.
I get it you enjoy vanilla...Mo, personality wise is vanilla , Bot more rocky road.
The 5th vesting year for Bot is apparently easy to meet and will bring the deal to 5/63. For his age 31-35 seasons! Jeez! (IYI: Bot pitched 4.4% of the Red Sox's innings in 2011.)
ReplyDeleteIt's the largest contract signed for a closer, topping B.J. Ryan's 5/47 deal with the Blue Jays in 2005. Ryan was released before the final year of the deal.
Red Sox fans can be really stoopid.
ReplyDeleteI did like him but I think he's kind of washed up now.
Brian Gambon, 28
He kind of messed things up for us. Look at even just the last game. I mean, he broke a lot of hearts...
Lane Stupell, 22
I don’t think he’s as good as he once was before. ... he’s on the way down.
B.J. Datta, 40
His time was up. He’s been kind of shaky the past two years ... it’s time to move on.
George Appleby, 52
"Some of you wont miss his "personality" or the shit he said.
ReplyDeleteThe guy never backed down or ran away from an interview and supported his teamates, yeah I'm glad he is gone too, it sucked watching him dance with such vigor and happiness after they won the pennant and the world series, personalties arent for baseball players anyway, how dare he......
Plain and simple he is an elite closer and if we couldnt have Mo give me Pap.
The people who wont miss him, your ignorance is friggin blinding...."
Thank you, 9c. Most Valuable Comment of 2011.
Over the last six seasons, Papelbon has been the most valuable (according to WAR) relief pitcher in baseball:
ReplyDeleteMost Wins Above Replacement
Relief Pitchers, Since 2006
Papelbon 14.7
Rivera 13.9
Thornton 10.2
Putz 9.7
F-Rodriguez 9.5
Bot and Rivera are the only two relievers to have at least 30 saves in each of the last six seasons. Papelbon is the only one to have 75+ strikeouts in each of the last six seasons.
Papelbon's FIP of 2.45 (which measures what a player's ERA would be based on things he can control: strikeouts, walks, and homeruns) was the best among relievers during that span.
Thank You, Jere.. and Allan and L.
ReplyDeleteI have said it before but I have learned alot from this blog.............nuff said.......
I liked Pete A's 11/12 clean-locker piece on Pap.
ReplyDelete