Red Sox - 100 330 000 1 - 8 10 2 Mariners - 041 200 000 0 - 7 12 0
Ellsbury, CF
Nava, RF
Pedroia, 2B
Ortiz, DH
Gomes, LF
Carp, 1B
Lavarnway, C
Holt, 3B
Iglesias, SS
Red Sox - 100 330 000 1 - 8 10 2 Mariners - 041 200 000 0 - 7 12 0
Ellsbury, CF
Nava, RF
Pedroia, 2B
Ortiz, DH
Gomes, LF
Carp, 1B
Lavarnway, C
Holt, 3B
Iglesias, SS
When the Yankees had 57 wins last year they had a 10 game lead. The Red Sox only have an 11.5 game lead over Toronto, the last place team.
ReplyDeleteThey sure are fun to watch. Are some of you saber-metrics fans, starting to believe chemistry of a team is just as important as numbers?
They sure are fun to watch. Are some of you saber-metrics fans, starting to believe chemistry of a team is just as important as numbers?
ReplyDeleteSrsly, 9C? What does that even mean?
If the team had "chemistry" and was losing every night, do you think you'd find them so much fun to watch?
Winning makes chemistry, not the other way around.
Or maybe the question was sarcastic and I'm making a fool of myself again. :)
PS: "Starting to believe"...? Like we all just woke up in 2013. Haven't seen any fun-to-watch teams before.
chemistry/numbers
ReplyDeleteIt's not an either/or proposition.
I think it's great that this team gets along so well. I think it's also great that they are good baseball players.
Starting to believe? Many didnt give this team a chance. Based on nothing but numbers and perceptions.
ReplyDeleteThis team is in first place and competely flying under the radar. You can even see that on this site.
My point wasn't meant to make anyone angry it was just meant to say, when you have asshole players and an asshole manager things don't go so well.
Koji finishing so far behind in the final all star vote is another sign some Red Sox fans are not paying attention.
Not angry. Not miffed, not even irked. More of a head-scratcher, really. It's like you haven't been reading Allan's blog for all these years.
ReplyDeletePeople not picking this team to do well doesn't prove one thing or another. It isn't some kind of proof that numbers don't matter. And numbers don't mean chemistry doesn't matter. The 2013 Sox are a surprise, and we love them, but would we love them if they were losing? Would they be having so much fun if they were losing?
(Btw, did you pick this team to do well? I did, based on nothing.)
Here you're kind of saying that BV messed up the team by being an asshole. Now, I have a huge dislike for BV and never supported him - whereas you said several times he would be fun, would shake up the team, would bring excitement.
So did BV eff up with his obnoxious personality, or is it possible he also made several bad decisions, maybe even many bad decisions, that led to losses, and losses led to bad chemistry?
Finally, I suggest that the "chemistry vs numbers" line of thought is beneath any serious baseball fan and is long due for retirement.
You cannot watch baseball without paying attention to numbers. No one does. And no one advances numbers at the expense of the game. The numbers are there to bring greater understanding, to answer questions (who is the better pitcher? which hitter brings the most to the team?) in a rational manner as opposed to a superficial manner. But it's not like there are two games, one called fun and one called numbers. They coexist all the time. Then every once in a while, someone decides numbers are bad or silly or worthless and makes fun of the people who advance them.
Honestly, I didn't know what to think of this team. But I think I mentioned on this blog that they would be fun before game 1. Booby V was a mistake, but I also think there were alot of players on that team that were bad for the team.
ReplyDeleteWith the numbers thing , I didnt know what to think of Shane Victorino comeing into this season. Especially after he had a down season last year. But he does alot of things that don't show up in a stat. First to third on a base hit , runners very rarely run first to third on him, moves runners over. He is so much better thatn I thought he would be.
The Red Sox just went back to the ways when they won. But I also believe the "numbers" they use are different than the ones the casual fan sees everyday.
I think you are taking what I meant as a positive and somehow making it a negative.
things that don't show up in a stat. First to third on a base hit
ReplyDeleteStats are kept of things like this.
XBT% - Times the runner takes the extra base on a hit. Victorino has done that 48% this year. (Which is a tad below his career average, but he is getting older, so ...)
Looking at a few random Sox for their %s:
Ortiz - 25%
Ellsbury - 42%
Pedroia - 40%
Gomes - 57%
Salty - 28%
You cannot watch baseball without paying attention to numbers. No one does. And no one advances numbers at the expense of the game. The numbers are there to bring greater understanding, to answer questions (who is the better pitcher? which hitter brings the most to the team?) in a rational manner as opposed to a superficial manner. But it's not like there are two games, one called fun and one called numbers. They coexist all the time. Then every once in a while, someone decides numbers are bad or silly or worthless and makes fun of the people who advance them.
ReplyDeleteI'd like this on a shirt.
I think you are taking what I meant as a positive and somehow making it a negative.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, 9C, this --
Are some of you saber-metrics fans, starting to believe chemistry of a team is just as important as numbers?\
-- will never sound like a positive.
If what a player does doesn't show up in your stats, you need better stats.
Unless you're just talking about calm eyes and elegant gaits. Mystique and aura.
But I also believe the "numbers" they use are different than the ones the casual fan sees everyday.
ReplyDeleteWho's "they"?
You don't read this blog, do you? :)
Almost every media outlet predicted this team to finish dead last. That was based on what? Two years ago the Red Sox were predicted to 100 games.
ReplyDeleteMy only point was that was all based on numbers nothing more nothing less.
I would also tend to believe the Red Sox have more info on players than fans do. In info and "numbers" I mean mental makeup and personality... I cant believe you didnt understand that is what I meant from the first post....
Sorry if I misinterpreted. I wasn't the only one, Allan read your comment the same way I did. Thanks for explaining.
ReplyDeleteMost people predicted the Red Sox to finish last this year because they had finished last last year - and because they did not make any big splashes over the winter.
ReplyDeleteAlso: Most sabermetrics is about understanding what has happened, not predicting what will happen.
See tomorrow's post for a link to a great article about why 2013 cannot be called a comeback by the Red Sox.
I would also tend to believe the Red Sox have more info on players than fans do. In info and "numbers" I mean mental makeup and personality...
ReplyDeleteOf course, they have more info. Like thousands of times more info. In addition to trying to get players who have a good mental makeup, they also use stats (both public and proprietary) to a degree that would likely make our collective heads spin.
I feel as though you think I was attacking you guys , that was never my intent....
ReplyDeleteI beileve the only way I know how good a player really is by watching them every game. I only watch the Red Sox. I could look at stats all day and see who is leading in different categories, and assume the leaders are good players sometime that is not the fact.
I felt that way with Aidrian Gonzalez, but when he got here , he still hit .300, but he was very one dimensional at the plate and on the basepaths. Just my opinion.
I feel as thoug Papi and Pedey are better hitters than Gonzalez. But the Red Sox would never fathom giving them guys that same contract.
I also thought Beltre was a great everday player but they didnt want him?
I dont know I am confused....lol..
Attacking us? No, absolutely not, never thought that for a moment.
ReplyDeleteI beileve the only way I know how good a player really is by watching them every game.
There is great value in that. When you watch a player every day, you do get a great sense of his strengths and weaknesses.
But (a) it's impossible to watch every player every day and (b) the human memory is a tricky thing. When we like a player's style, we may remember him in a more positive light, and the same in reverse.
Adding (a) and (b) together is why we need numbers. If we only relied on human memory and who we can physically see play every day, we would make some very bad decisions!
You personally may not enjoy fooling around with stats in order to know things. That's cool. But there's no doubt that the right statistics will tell you more about a player, beyond the limits of your own eyes and memory.
When you bring up contracts, IMO that is a completely different matter. Contracts are not only based on stats, there are many other factors.
I pay zero attention to what anyone earns. I don't know and don't care.
You personally may not enjoy fooling around ....
ReplyDeleteSure I do... I got stats for that...lol
Did I take that out of context?....lol
Have a good night!