October 8, 2005

Manny Wants To Play For White Sox?

Doug Padilla, Chicago Sun-Times:
If seeing high-priced Manny Ramirez in a White Sox uniform next season sounds far-fetched, consider that the Boston Red Sox outfielder has said he would like it to happen.

According to a source, Ramirez told multiple White Sox players earlier this season that he wanted to play on the South Side and suit up for manager Ozzie Guillen.
Sketchy, but we'll see if the Boston papers pick up on it.

14 comments:

Tash said...

Good for him. Maybe he'll cut his hair as well.

No link to source?

redsock said...

the link is there ("sun-times")

Anonymous said...

The only reason to get rid of manny is to use his salary for something else.
Otherwise, he is a fine player to have. Which means, do NOT trade him
if you have to pay any of his salary

john t. said...

Let'im go, it won't matter, because the Red Sox will not seriousely contend again for some time.

The man who brought you Edgar Renteria for 40 mil, instead of Pedro and Orlando Cabrera, is at the helm and his luck is wearing thin.

What kind of scouting reports did he base the Renteria decision on? Did E.R. ever look like he belonged on the Red Sox? And what effect did this quiet professional with the lead leading 33 errors have in the clubhouse. Remember the passion and fire of Cabrera, and wasn't he among the league leaders in fielding percentage?

How well did Pedro pitch for a mediocre team?

Red Sox management broke up a great championship team, and next spring this 2005 team will be unrecognizable from the one that got swept by the White Sox.

Don't expect to come this close again for some time.

Andrew said...

um, John... the scouting reports on Edgar are the same ones everyone else in the world had, all of which described him as one of the absolute most elite SS's in the game, defensively and offensively. He had a very down year; it might be indicative, it might not. But to suggest that they just tossed money at a guy without doing research seems a tad reactionary. Ditto on Pedro - he had a great year for a new team. Ever consider that maybe he wanted to play there more than here? I love how Sox fans get this myopia about Pedro, that somehow he was crying at the door and we just wouldn't throw him a bone. We offered him a competitive contract. He wanted a better one. I neither blame him nor Theo for it; it's the nature of free agency. Being angry about the loss is one thing, but irrationally lashing out at management is another. There are reasons to criticize the front office this year, but if you're going to do so, you have to alos try to understand the motivation for moves at the time, and the likelihood they would have worked at the time. Basing criticism on pure hindsight as you're doing is neither useful nor fair.

And by the way, have you actually looked at Cabrera's numbers this year? He was significantly worse offensively than Edgar.

DanM said...

And so it starts ...

This is the Red Sox Nation beginning our planning for next year. I thought it would be the winter meetings before we called for changes and retributions but am happy to see we are at least over our loss and working on next year.

All things considered I am ready to strengthen the pitching and make one or two other changes. ER will be fine - I have watched him for years (about 8 now) - he is an excellent SS - defense and offense. I cannot say I agree with his position in the line up though.

I did wonder throughout this year if the clubhouse was anywhere near as loose as last year. Last year the players were laughing, joking, giving high fives (or whatever) and hugging. Pedro was instrumental in goofing around in the dugout - he is gone and everyone rode the bench between defensive stints. It would be good to see that camaraderie back again.

The antiCoach made a lot of offensive switches all year long that astounded me - I can't figure them out. Additionally, he waited too long before warming relievers and giving starters the boot. His relationship with Schill is a hard spot but we must get helmsmanship during the game. Schill will have to see the betterment of the whole or the antiCoach will have to get much better. The antiCoach is not going to get better (his days in Philadelphia were just like this year in Boston, IMHO). Therefore, I say its time to get a pro manager. Now that Jack McKeon is available, perhaps we can get the skipper to Fenway? Or, as long as Joe Torre is not happy in Gotham City, perhaps he would like to visit historic Boston?

Finally, no doubt about it - the pitching is sorely lacking. Forget the salary cap - pay the fine, just make us Champs (again)!

See, we waited until next year ...

john t. said...

ah, Andrew? Do you think all baseball teams share one scouting report for each player? Baseball people in St. Louis had serious doubts about how E.R. would make the transition to Boston and the AL. It seems those doubts were well founded. I doubt if I’m the only one who thought that E.R. looked like a fish out of water on this Boston team. Temperament plays a role in how players adapt and perform, and I think that a big scouting mistake was made by management in overlooking some intangibles, like how will his personality fit with the existing team, how will he adapt to a big market team, how will he adapt to AL style baseball, and it undermines my confidence in their decision making process. If both O.C. and E. R. had stayed put they might both have had great years. I stand behind my contention that it was a bad move to change shortstops. Our well paid baseball brains goofed on that one, imho, and that’s not lashing out, that’s just stating opinion.

How mathematically significant is the difference between a BA of .250 and .280? 15 hits over 500 at bats or one hit every 10 games over the course of the season. Pretty insignificant. Don’t even look at defense stats. I’d rather have had what Cabrera brings to the game.

I won’t be a scold, let everyone say their piece, but I’m not the only one who thinks the Pedro deal could have been done, and I’m no fan of Dominican Divas. Red sox management is always a bit disingenuous about the how and why of how things worked out.

I have no anger about being swept by the White Sox. It was clear early on that it was not to be. I may be upset about probably having to say goodbye to some players who deserved better than what they will get because of the economic realities of baseball.

Dan’s positive look to the future is refreshing. We do have some fine youngsters coming up through the system. And based on past performance we should see better stats from E. R. next season. It did take ARod an entire season to adjust to NY. But I just can’t imagine E.R. looking comfortable at short or at the plate in a Red Sox uniform.

Dan makes a good point about the looseness of this team: it sometimes appeared forced, and the camaraderie this year seemed entirely different. But it was a much different team.

My point exactly. The 2006 edition of the Red Sox will be drastically different with more changes made than even last year. Hold on. It will be an interesting and exciting ride. Let’s hope it is not also exasperating

redsock said...

How mathematically significant is the difference between a BA of .250 and .280? 15 hits over 500 at bats or one hit every 10 games over the course of the season. Pretty insignificant.

You seem to be stating the other side of your argument here.

Maybe we shouldn't look down on ER's bat because over the course of a season -- with some luck here and there -- he could have hit 30 points higher. (I couldn't care less how many HR he hits.) Certainly we saw him late in the season lining into a lot of outs.

Tito is now saying ER was hurt for much of the season -- and there had been rumors to that effect off and on all summer. I'm not that worried about him. I think he'll be fine (and quite productive) in '06.

Re My Man Pedro: Didn't the Mets keep a stricter count on his pitches than Boston would have and shut him down anyway in mid-September?

... the Red Sox will not seriousely contend again for some time.

Anyone wanna take john t. up on this bet?

:>)

john t. said...

Well, jack marshall, of all people seems to consider the possibility that the Sox won’t be contending next year if they choose to go the abbreviated rebuilding route I suggested in another comment: Jack says,

“. . . if the Sox fans would make a pact giving the team permission to spend '06 reloading and sorting out the kids, thus slipping back to, say, 88-89 wins. For what it's worth, I'd sign on.”

I guess that’s kind of a backhanded way of agreeing with me that the Sox may not contend next year.


On Edgar Renteria

My point was about E.R.’s BA vs O.R.’s and their respective defensive stats.

I’m not anti Edgar, I just think he is a poor fit for the Red Sox. If he was scouted as an elite, world class shortstop, as he was presented to us, then what happened? He looks overwhelmed and out of his element on the Red Sox, at least to me. That’s my impression. I don’t think he is worth the money, and now I’m afraid we’re stuck with the contract. Hopefully he will perform up to the contract next year. I’ll be pulling for him. I love it when people overcome adversity.

But I don’t buy for a minute that E.R. was hurt, except maybe for his pride and his ego.

And why wouldn’t a non-contending team (the Mets) shut down their ace (Pedro) in order to protect him for the next season?

My point was that the championship team would have had a good chance at repeating as constituted. The changes management made . . . well, you can see the results.

Andrew said...

Well, you can refuse to buy that all you like, but it would relly be your opinion up against a wall of evidence. Bricks in that wall include statements by Edgar, the manager and the front office, as well as his performance compared to past seasons, the sudden decline in defensive ability, etc. If Renteria had been plying for a backwater like Pittsburgh, you point might hold water. But Edgar Renteria was playing in a town that rivals Boston for baseball intensity, and he thrived there.

The championship team may have done exactly that. But I'll remind you that the championship team depended on Curt Schilling and Keith Foulke, and neither of them could really be counted on in 2005. It could not count on Alan Embree. You want to go find Curtis Leskanic and see how he'd do? How about Mark Bellhorn? Teams have to move on; resigning the entire team again would not only likely have been a poor decision this year, but would have crippled the team under bad contracts for years. Only under that circumstance could we guarantee that the Sox would not compete for quite some time; as it stands, we're looking at a very short turnaround between an old declining championship team and a young flexible team that could allow Boston to compete for years. But, if you prefer, you can just watch your 2004 DVD's next year. I'll be watching what promises to be one of the most exciting Sox teams in years.

john t. said...

Good for you, Andrew. Tell me, who do you think will be playing on that exciting team you'll be watching next season.

Who's your starting nine and your 1 to 5 rotation? Who do you have in the bullpen?

As far as for what the Red Sox PR (Public Relations) spin miesters make up for after the fact excuses, don't be naive.

E.R. played poorly for the Sox, and some (though not I) would say "He sucked"!

If you think he played great and made important contributions to the team in every regard, then I defer to your expertise, and I respect your opinion: I just totally disagree.

I don't watch sports DVDs and I don't really even like highlight films. I'm not stuck in the past. I'm just questioning Red Sox management expertise. I feel obligated as a fan to suport whatever team they put out there, and therefore I would like to see better management decisions.

What looks good on paper isn't always so good in the flesh, is it?

Luminous (\รด/) Luciano ™ said...

The return to form of the closer extraordinaire as well as that of the true ace of this team, along with the signing of a key name from the past, to replace the retiree Wells, shall make the Red Sox Division Champions... and more!

Thus is my Luminous Prediction! ;)

Edward Lee said...

Maybe we shouldn't look down on ER's bat because over the course of a season -- with some luck here and there -- he could have hit 30 points higher. (I couldn't care less how many HR he hits.) Certainly we saw him late in the season lining into a lot of outs.

Actually, I'd care a lot. Among MLB shortstops who qualified for batting titles, his slugging pct was 13th out of 21. He had a great hitting season in 2003 (.330/.394/.480, 13 HR, 100 RBI). I think the Red Sox hoped that's what they'd be getting, but instead Renteria's OBP and power numbers regressed to their career norms. Plus he struck out way more than he usually does.

A guy with Renteria's salary better be hitting really well and playing reliable defense, and he didn't do either this season.

Devine said...

Oh for pity's sake, Renteria had a bad year. People have bad years, especially transitioning from place to place.

Frankly, I think Edgar will be better next season and everyone should stop whining so much. If he sucks (which he didn't really offensively, and did certainly defensively this past season) again next year, count me in on being fed up with him, but one bad year does not a bad contract make.