January 23, 2006

Conflicting Reports on Boston-Cleveland Deal

Jeff Horrigan, Herald:
Over the weekend, the Red Sox and Cleveland Indians reached an agreement that would send 26-year-old outfielder Crisp, and possibly a minor leaguer, to the Sox in exchange for top third base prospect Andy Marte and relief pitcher Guillermo Mota. The deal was contingent upon the Indians completing a trade for an outfielder to replace Crisp, which was accomplished when they apparently settled on sending reliever Arthur Rhodes, or even Mota, to Philadelphia for Jason Michaels.
Chris Snow, Globe:
The Red Sox, according to a source with knowledge of the deal, have reached agreement in principle with the Indians on a complex six-player deal centered upon 26-year-old Coco Crisp that also will bring to town a quality setup man in 28-year-old David Riske and young catcher Josh Bard. Boston will ship top prospect Andy Marte, reliever Guillermo Mota, and catcher Kelly Shoppach to Cleveland.
(Kudos to Snow for also mentioning The Hardball Times, which named Crisp "best defensive left fielder".)

What makes no sense to me is the idea that Cleveland (who tried to trade for Marte last year) would turn around and send Mota to Philadelphia for Jason Michaels. (Ken Rosenthal at FoxSports believes Cleveland will send Arthur Rhodes to the Phillies for Michaels.)

This could just be the Cleveland press reporting silly things, but if Snow's scenario is true, why wouldn't Boston simply trade Mota for Michaels? Is the talent difference between Crisp and Michaels worth Marte? Unlikely. Boston couldn't plug the hole in center by offering one of their starters (Arroyo or Wells), and now they're forced to lose Marte.

Eric Wilbur notes that "While a few Red Sox fans are criticizing the potential deal [as reported by Snow] ... even more Indians fans are doing the same."

Meanwhile, Crisp is working out and "[doing] whatever my wife wants me to do."


Sean O said...

Well, guess we learned many Indians fans are idiots. Getting Marte for Crisp is such a steal I can't even begin, not even going into the Mota part.

God, our FO is dumb and desperate.

Jim M said...

Maybe the Indians fans liked what they saw out of Crisp since he has improved with each passing season.
Maybe they figured they were set in the OF for years to come with the trio of Sizemore/Crisp and Blake. Maybe they didnt want to trade that away for a bunch of Baseball America press clippings. If Marte was such a sure thing then why did the always savvy Braves give up on him?.
Is he going to be the next big thing.....Maybe....but thats a big maybe. I can remember Baseball America annointing Kaz Matsui as the next superstar SS calling him a cant miss 5 tool player. Seems to me that Kaz left some of his tools back in Yokahama.
So lets not marry ourselves to the fact that Marte for Crisp is a steal.
You may be right... Im not saying that Marte will be a bust....I was impressed the little I saw of him here in Buffalo. The Sox may very well get eggs on their faces if Marte does explode. But Crisp is no slouch and will play a very solid CF for the Sox. I think considering that Damon was in no way shape or form worth a cosmic 52 Mil and the Seattle deal for Reed would have cost one if not two good solid pitchers for a .240 hitter......I think Crisp is a great pick up and worth rolling the dice.
Jim M

Sean O said...

Honestly, and no one was more opposed to the Damon signing than I was, I would rather have Damon and Marte than Crisp. Remember that the Yankees spending 4/52 for him is nothing compared to us spending 4/52 for him, because he was built for Fenway which would drastically aid his decline.

I don't know why we gave up on Marte so quickly when his value is at its lowest, and we moved out of panic rather than logic. If the Phillies give up Michaels for chump change, as is rumored, then we got totally screwed on this deal.

Jim M said...

I see your concerns Sean.
As I said if Marte explodes then the Sox wind up with major egg on their faces...which he may in fact do.
I just see him, and any prospect for that matter, as a crapshoot.
I think Crisp is going to be a good addition.
Was the move made out of panic? ......maybe....however the Sox didnt leave themselves much wiggle room after Damon left. I prefer this to an Arroyo/Clement deal for Reed. He's a guy I dont think is ever going to amount to anything. Crisp at least I see some upside.
Jim M

Kyle said...

Jason Michaels shouldn't even be involved in this conversation. He is a complete bum. Living near Philly and hearing what their fans have to say about him...I know we don't want him.

Yeah, giving up Marte hurts. Getting Crisp is still probably the best move in all the CF talk this offseason.

Sean O said...

Philly fans hate Abreu as well. I live in devon, and I know several people who never want to see Abreu in right again.

Philly fans hate everyone. And Michaels for a middle reliever is so, so much better than this marte for crisp mess.

Donald said...

Sean, I don't think you're giving Coco his due. There aren't a lot of OFs that have his combination of batting average, speed, and developing power. He posted an OPS+ of 119 last year. I was surprised by what I saw when I compared some other ourfielders from 2005.

Coco Crisp .300/.345/.465 OPS+ 119
Carl Crawford .301/.331/.469 OPS+ 111
Carlos Beltran .266/.330/.414 OPS+ 95
Ichiro Suzuki .303/.350/.436 OPS+ 109

Of course, Crisp doesn't hold a candle to these guys defensively. From what I've heard, he's below average to average as a CF. But he can handle the stick, and he's still improving. And if he can just hold down the position for a couple of years until Jacoby Ellsbury is ready, we should be set.

Marte still has the far higher ceiling, but the fact is, this is the need right now. I don't see any other options right now in CF.

Zenslinger said...

It seems to be done.

Hard to know what we've given up, but good to know we got someone pretty good in CF.