August 27, 2006

G130: Mariners 6, Red Sox 3

Swept. And held to two hits. By the Mariners.

Now 6.5 games out of the East (as New York held on in Anaheim 11-8). The Blue Jays are 8.5 GB.

***

End of 8 innings -- Delcarmen again retires the Mariners in order, this time on four pitches. Very nice.

End of 7 innings -- Delcarmen retired the Mariners on six pitches. After a long run, Hinske made a flatout dive (a (good) Cocoesque leap) towards the right field line on Rivera's liner for the second out. Snagged it as he was hortizontal in the air and slid to a stop just shy of the stands!

End of 6 innings -- Alex Cora just pulled off an unassisted double play on a ground ball! Mariners had Ibanez (walk) on second and Sexson on first (HBP) with one out. Tavarez went into his motion and did his little Tiant-twist-and-look-at-second-base motion and Ibanez headed back to the back, thinking Sexy Lips had stepped off. But he went into his regular motion and pitched. Broussard hit the ball to shortstop. Cora grabbed it as he was running towards the bag, stepped on second to force Sexson, then tagged Ibanez who was a little off second base, quite confused. (I was watching on the computer on mute, but I'm pretty sure that's how it happened.)

Middle 6th -- David Ortiz's 47th home run of the year has ended Baek's shot at both a no-hitter and a shutout. After one long drive to right hooked foul, Ortiz refined his aim five pitches later. .. One out later, Lowell hits #15. And the Sox trail 5-3. And Baek is off to the showers. Hmmmmm ...

End of 5th -- Goddamn this team! Suzuki gets an infield single to the shortstop hole, Snelling doubles down the right field line, Beltre walks on four pitches, Bases loaded, none out. Ibanez crushes a 2-0 pitch to deep right for a grand slam. 5-1 Mariners. ... After Sexson singles, Snyder is gone and here comes Tavarez. ... But wait, there's more! And after a line out to left, two more singles, a fielder's choice (coupled with a two-base throwing error from Lopez), Ichiro is walked, again loading the bases. Tavarez falls behind Snelling 3-0, but battles back to strike him out. Great linescore:
Red Sox  - 000 01     - 1  0 2
Mariners - 010 05 - 6 10 1
Middle of 5th -- The Red Sox get a run! Hinske walks on 5 pitches. Pedroia walks on 13 (!) pitches. Then Lopez strikes out on 3 pitches. And Cora strikes out on 3 pitches. (Anger ... rising ...) Crisp falls behind 0-2 before grounding to first. Broussard's throw to the bag goes way over the pitcher's head, Hinske scores, but Pedroia is tagged out in a rundown at second. 1-1.

End of 4 innings -- Speaking of no-hitters, Cha Seung Baek is throwing one. A no-hitter, I mean. Hasn't allowed a hit. That's right. No hits for the Red Sox. On his way to a no-no. Imagine that. A no-hitter.

End of 3 innings -- I've never seen or watched a no-hitter, but I just saw Javy Lopez throw out a base runner! OMG!!! Ibanez (who last night advanced from first to second on a fly to Coco) was gunned down as part of a double play on Sexson's strikeout. Snyder, however, is making Jon Lester look like vintage Maddux, having thrown 69 pitches in three innings.

End of 2 innings -- Amazingly, it's only Seattle 1-0. The Mariners loaded the bases in the first on a walk and two infield hits (Pedroia dove for Snelling's grounder and pulled Loretta off the bag with his throw; Cora went into the hole on Sexson's grounder and bobbled the ball when he tried to get a force at third). Synder struck out Broussard and stranded three runners.

In the second, Youkilis had a lot of trouble with the sun in left. Betancourt's line drive sailed over his head and glove for a double, then Bloomquist's routine fly ball fell at his feet for an error. After a BBI to Suzuki, a sac fly scored Betancourt.

Meanwhile, the Yankees lead the Angels 8-2 after 3 innings (Bernie Williams has hit 2 HR). The White Sox beat the Twins 6-1.

***

Kyle Snyder (5.35) / Cha Seung Baek (5.40), 4 PM

Baek made his first start of the season last Tuesday, throwing 103 pitches in five innings against the Yankees. He walked three and struck out six, and allowed three runs. He also pitched in seven games for the Mariners in 2004.

Today's Murmurers Row:
Crisp, CF
Loretta, 1B
Ortiz, DH
Youkilis, LF
Lowell, 3B
Hinske, RF
Pedroia, 2B
Lopez, C
Cora, SS
It never ends. WEEI reported about an hour ago that Jon Lester will miss his start tomorrow night in Oakland, possibly related to a stiff back from his recent fender-bender on Storrow Drive. Kason Gabbard will apparently get the ball.

56 comments:

L-girl said...

I've never seen or watched a no-hitter, but I just saw Javy Lopez throw out a base runner! OMG!!!

This is very funny. :)

You did have tickets to a no-hitter once, you know. Sad.

Jack Marshall said...

And there's another one.
All of us know that Kyle Snyder can't go more than 4 innings without getting clobbered, just as all of us knew that Jason Johnson was hopeless, just as we knew that Pauley had no business pitching above Triple A. Still, Theo and Terry keep trotting these guys out there, hoping that the team will score 10 runs. That was an idiotic strategy for the months when the team COULD score 10 runs, but what is it with this beaten up, dispirited team? How about negligent? How about disgraceful? How about incompetent beyond comprehension?????

I'm going out now with my machete to kill some random Yankee fans. Don't tell.

Gutch220 said...

^why would you do that? you should go out and kill Theo, and Terry, and maybe Coco Crisp among others.

RichBrlsnFan said...

Dustin Pedroia had a couple of good at-bats against the starting pitcher.

I'm reduced to cheering for the call ups.

August is the month to separate the contenders from the pretenders. We have 4 days left to see for sure which one this team is.

Woti-woti said...

Remember when the knock on the Sox was that they only beat up on the bad teams? Well, they got rid of that rap. They've lost the last 10 they've played against the bottom-feeders in all 3 divisions. Jesus. But like I said, I don't know whether to bitch or feel sorry for the beat-up, sick and demoralized bunch they run out there every night.

Woti-woti said...

Edit, sorry it's only 8.

L-girl said...

I don't know whether to bitch or feel sorry for the beat-up, sick and demoralized bunch they run out there every night.

I do both.

Jack, I have some nominations. Meet me in Times Square.

9casey said...

Maybe people will start to respect the Varitek's , Nixon's and Wakefield's of the world. Red Sox ... Nixon will probablly be gone at the end of the season , mostly because he is very injury prone....But when he plays he knows what it means to be a Red Sock...It might be to late but when they come back there will be a noticeable difference...Its not like when the yankees lose matsui and sheffield....Matsui kills us granted but he is a subpar outfielder.....and everyone knows what a cancer Sheff is.....Matsui doesn't speak english and Shef doesn't speak glowing about anyone but himself....But take Tek , Nixon and Wake of the field and not competeing...You lose for lack of a better words " the fire". really just too many first year guys on the field right now. Youk first real year, Coco first year red sock, lowell , loretta, pena, hinske, lopez..etc...etc..etc..Let's get our boys back and then see what we can do....

redsock said...

But when he plays he knows what it means to be a Red Sock

For a moment I thought I had tuned into the YES Network by mistake.

The fire. Yeesh.

Jere said...

L-Girl supporting the killing of Yankee fans! She's finally completed the transition, haha. You are "one of us." Welcome aboard!

Jere said...

Oh, and I had the pleasure (and luck, of course) of witnessing a no-hitter. Derek Lowe's. RF Box. What a crazy day. Kids' Opening Day, so all the kids were announcing the hitters. Rickey Henderson hits a leadoff HR, his 100th, I think. And around the sixth we all just started looking at each other. We kept trying to figure out which fans around us still didn't "know" as it got later and later. My girlfriend at the time wasn't feeling good that day and opted not to go, so, she also has the "I had tickets to a no-hitter" thing goin' for her.

L-girl said...

Oh! Big mistake here. I posted a comment without realizing Redsock had logged in on my computer. This:

But when he plays he knows what it means to be a Red Sock

For a moment I thought I had tuned into the YES Network by mistake.

The fire. Yeesh.


Was me!

Sorry, A. Didn't mean to steal your persona.

L-girl said...

L-Girl supporting the killing of Yankee fans! She's finally completed the transition, haha. You are "one of us." Welcome aboard!

Hmph. I've been one of you since June 2003. There were always Yankee fans I wanted to kill.

I just don't stereotype all of them as bad and all of us as good, the way some people around here do. Not that I'm pointing any fingers, Jere. JERE. [point point]

But hopefully the whole nation doesn't have to march in lockstep in order to be onboard. I'd rather not join that kind of Nation.

L-girl said...

Oh, and I had the pleasure (and luck, of course) of witnessing a no-hitter. Derek Lowe's.

Wow! How cool.

My girlfriend at the time wasn't feeling good that day and opted not to go, so, she also has the "I had tickets to a no-hitter" thing goin' for her.

Here's our "had tickets to a no-hitter" story.

We went to Opening Day at Yankee Stadium in 1996, with our young friend Matt (who I turned into a Yankees fan in the 80s when the Yankees sucked and all his little pals were Mets fans... he is still completely rabid).

Andy Pettitte was pitching. It snowed. A lot. Allan couldn't score because his scorecard got all wet.

As a thank-you for sitting through the snow, it was announced you could get free tickets to another game during the season. There was a choice of 3 or 4 games.

Matt & I waited on line, got our tickets. When I got home, I saw we had something else planned that day. I sent our tickets to Matt and told him to go with other friends instead.

It turned out to be Dwight Gooden's no hitter.

So this kid that we turned on to baseball got to see a no-hitter. Later on he took me to World Series games, and continued to take me to playoff and WS games for many years, so I really can't complain.

We didn't even go to the other thing we had planned. Not that it would have mattered.

Jere said...

Johnny Damon batted lower than Mike Macfarlane that day for KC.

So, if it was Gooden's no-hitter, I guess Allan isn't too upset he missed it...

Drew said...

We can't get our hopes up -- check this out . . . odds of making the playoffs:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php

redsock said...

No, I would have loved to have been there.

But I maintain that our presence there would have altered the air currents or vibes or something and there would have been no no-hitter. It helps me feel better. So, Dwight, you owe me, buddy.

Remember, this was May 1996. They were not the threat and annoyance they would soon become. They had been humiliated in the 1995 playoffs (up 2-0, lost 3-2) by Seattle. Plus, we had made the playoffs in 1995 too.

I had seen them win plenty of games. I wish one of them had been a no-hitter, on either (non-Boston) side.

redsock said...

Fire and being a "real Red Sox" (tm)?

I'll stand by the comments made by "me". Which wasn't me.

Jere said...

I didn't click the link but I heard about this on the radio, that we had 1 5% chance or whatever. These are the exact stats I can't stand. A computer plays the games out a million times and gives you the most common result. Why not just have the computers play the season, then? Did one of their possibilities include a blimp crashing and wiping out an entire team? No, but that could happen. The only result that counts is the one that actually ends up happening. Yes, any dipshit with half a brain could look at the standings and say "the team in the lead is gonna win," and give that team a better chance when they're up by a lot or if there are only a few games left.

If somebody told me I had a 1% chance to make it to my next birthday, if anything, I'm going to do more with my life, but I definitely would make my main goal to prove the odds wrong.

Didn't we say this last year, with us having the better chance: "The Yanks could play .800 ball for the last month, and even if we only played .500 ball, we'd still win. They have no chance." Well, that basically did happen, and we didn't win the division. And I wonder what the odds were of us coming back from a 3-0 deficit in the ALCS in 2004? Anything can happen.

And Allan--the Yanks may not always be a threat, but they're always an annoyance to me. Besides, I was so pissed in 1995: When I found out there would be an extra playoff team, I said, Oh great, so we'll win the division, and they'll STILL make the playoffs. And that's exactly what happened. And when they got in, the Blue Jays set off fireworks. Again, always an annoyance. Granted, it was cool how they lost game 5 that year.

L-girl said...

I'll stand by the comments made by "me". Which wasn't me.

Great minds and all that.

L-girl said...

And Allan--the Yanks may not always be a threat, but they're always an annoyance to me.

Do tell. (Just an expression. Don't feel obligated.)

But certain baseball events transcend teams, at least for some of us. I'm sure Allan would have been thrilled to be at either Wells' or Cone's perfect games. I'd be thrilled to see a no-hitter by anyone, anytime, as long as it wasn't against my team.

redsock said...

Well, you won't like the latest post, Jere.

Anything can happen -- but it usually doesn't. That's why only one baseball team has ever come back from being down 0-3. The odds are strongly against it happening.

I believe we have a better shot at the playoffs than the odds I posted.

Hopefully, Season #368,013 (or whatever) that has Boston winning the East by 2 games is the one that will occur.

We'll see in a few weeks.

Jere said...

Somebody, I think Bob Ryan, said, about Mike Mussina's near perfect game at Fenway, that if you weren't rooting for him, you're not a baseball fan. To which my friend said, and I totally agreed, "I'd have rather puked blood out my eyes than see him get that perfect game." And that was against my team, but my other team is "whoever plays the Yankees," so, I'm definitely gonna root against all Yankee or vs.-Red Sox greatness.

But my point was really that depite whatever the Yanks are currently going through, it's always fun to root against them. Those really bad teams they had 15 years ago, I still watched them all season, cherishing every second of their ineptitude, even though I was only 3 when they'd won their most recent title. Hearing about "22 championships" was every bit as annoying as hearing about the 26. So, until someone starts taking champioships AWAY from then, I'm pretty sure they'll always be annoying to me.

Jere said...

And yeah, I didn't like the next post, heh heh. I still wanna know who wins the East in the event of a blimp crash. (or crashes.)

Jere said...

Seriously, if these computers had said a few weeks ago, "There's a surprising amount of evidence that the Yanks will actually sweep 5 from the Red Sox," maybe I'd give them some credibility of knowing the future. But all it is is averages. Which tell the past, not the future.

L-girl said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
L-girl said...

Somebody, I think Bob Ryan, said, about Mike Mussina's near perfect game at Fenway, that if you weren't rooting for him, you're not a baseball fan.

I don't know how anyone could want to see their team no-hit. If I ever get to see no-no or a perfect game, and it's against the Sox, it would be such a cruel twist.

I will admit I was (secretly) cheering for Pedro when he was mowing down Yankees in that 17 K game. In retrospect, it was the first rumblings of things to come, but I didn't know it then.

L-girl said...

even though I was only 3 when they'd won their most recent title.

Ah-ha. :)

You posted something on your blog - the post everyone loved and I so vehemently disagreed with - and you mentioned 1986. It sounded really off to me, like you couldn't possibly have been in NYC or been old enough to know what was going on with fans of both NY teams at the time. Now I know I was right. Thanks :)

Jere said...

Whoa, whoa, whoa, I was 11 in '86. Knew players names--all of them, on all the teams--since I was about 3. Grew up in tri-state area. What exactly was it you thought I didn't know about?

L-girl said...

And yeah, I didn't like the next post, heh heh. I still wanna know who wins the East in the event of a blimp crash. (or crashes.)

And hear for the rest of our lives how the Red Sox only won the division because the Yankees all died in a blimp crash? No thonx.

L-girl said...

Whoa, whoa, whoa, I was 11 in '86. Knew players names--all of them, on all the teams--since I was about 3. Grew up in tri-state area. What exactly was it you thought I didn't know about?

How Yankee fans felt, how the city behaved. But then, you've shown no evidence you understand Yankee fans now, so why would have when you were only 11 years old?

Jere said...

Well, all I can say then is that I've been surrounded by them my entire life, so I understand them more than most Sox fans do, at least.

And it was quite simple, even at 11, to figure out that all the kids with Yankee hats suddenly started wearing hats when the Mets became the better team. And that was all I ever needed to understand.

L-girl said...

And that was all I ever needed to understand.

Exactly. You formed those opinions when you were a child, based on other children around you, and apparently haven't reevaluated since.

L-girl said...

I have no problem saying I cheered for the Mets in 86. Most Yankees fans wanted to see the Mets beat the Red Sox, and not because they are fair-weather fans.

I could never have cheered for the Red Sox. I came into baseball in the late 70s, nuff said. Many other Yankee fans felt similarly about the Sox.

And two, New York. It's my city. I love New York City, and I was cheering for it, against the city of Boston. The team has an NY on their cap, I'm not going to hope they lose.

So I thought (among other things) that you misinterpreted why many Yankee fans supported the Mets in 1986.

I hope many Cubs fans rooted for the White Sox last year. Same thing.

Jere said...

It all depends on the person. If you missed the 70s, all you knew, as a Yankee fan, was your hatred of the Mets, so you rooted against them in 1986. If you were any older than that, you probably rooted against the rival Red Sox. Everyone's different. There are things said that are just so untrue, like: In NY, it's Mets or Yanks, nothing in between. Yet you and so many others will root for the other sometimes. Which I can't understand. To say "it's my city, so I can root for all the teams in it," well, besides being a huge cop out, that's kind of unfair to all the single-city teams. They don't get to choose a bonus team to root for in case theirs isn't any good. See, this is another thing about Yankee fans. In a series between two of their rivals, they'll always pick one to root for, because they'd rather have a chance to be on the winning side, even if it means rooting for a team they don't like. Whereas Red Sox fans, in watching, say, a Yankees intrasquad game, wouldn't root for either side.

L-girl said...

It all depends on the person. . . . Everyone's different.

Yes! Exactly. Not all Yankees fans are the same. And believe it or not, Jere, not all Red Sox fans are, either. They're not all diehard as you like to pretend.

There are things said that are just so untrue, like: In NY, it's Mets or Yanks, nothing in between. Yet you and so many others will root for the other sometimes.

Not sometimes. I did once - and because of who they were playing. Not unlike your "I root for the Red Sox and whatever team is playing the Yankees". Don't tell me you didn't cheer for the Diamondbacks in 2001? It's the same thing.

say "it's my city, so I can root for all the teams in it," well, besides being a huge cop out

It's not even a small cop out: it's how I feel. Being a New Yorker is a very big thing to me.

that's kind of unfair to all the single-city teams.

Unfair?? I have to be fair to other cities? Jere, do you hear yourself?

I am a New Yorker, I have that allegiance. It's very powerful. If you don't understand it, fine, that's you. But to say it's not fair to another city, well, you're being a tad ridiculous. Desperate, perhaps, to make a point that is based purely on emotion and has very little evidence to back it up.

See, this is another thing about Yankee fans. In a series between two of their rivals, they'll always pick one to root for, because they'd rather have a chance to be on the winning side, even if it means rooting for a team they don't like.

I hope when you say things like that, you realize you're just making shit up. Yankee fans root for teams they don't like? No. They root against teams they like less, just like Red Sox fans do.

Whereas Red Sox fans, in watching, say, a Yankees intrasquad game, wouldn't root for either side.

Bullshit. I have seen tons of Red Sox fans choose between rivals and cheer for teams other the Sox. If not, what does the "I root for two teams..." saying mean? It means exactly this.

L-girl said...

I wish someone (Allan?) would write something about the myth of the always-diehard Red Sox fan. I have a feeling there were years that tickets at Fenway were pretty easy to come by.

It's great to hear the "Let's Go Red Sox" chants in parks all over the country, but let's not pretend that existed before 2004.

L-girl said...

Whereas Red Sox fans, in watching, say, a Yankees intrasquad game, wouldn't root for either side.

Bullshit. I have seen tons of Red Sox fans choose between rivals and cheer for teams other the Sox. If not, what does the "I root for two teams..." saying mean? It means exactly this.


Oops, I wanted to qualify that. Of course a Sox fan wouldn't root for either end of a Yankees intersquad team. But neither would I ever have cheered for either end of Mets vs. Mets.

It depends who the team is facing. Cheering for a team against your bitter rival is a perfectly common sports phenom, known to Red Sox and Yankees fans alike.

redsock said...

Seriously, if these computers had said a few weeks ago, "There's a surprising amount of evidence that the Yanks will actually sweep 5 from the Red Sox," maybe I'd give them some credibility of knowing the future.

They are not predicting the future. I'm sure you know that.

I guarantee you that if simulations were run of 1,000,000 5-game series between the MFY and Sox, the MFY would sweep all 5 dozens of times. So would Boston. In 1,000,000 chances, that will occur.

It's probability. Looking at the standings right now, it is probable that the Yankees will win the division. That is NOT a prediction. And it is not necessarily what will happen. But it is probable.

***

I remember in 1986, Laura called (as did many New Yorkers) the World Series "Them v. Them".

redsock said...

I would have loved to see a Yankee pitcher throw a no-hitter when I was there. ... Are you kidding? I always start thinking about the possibility in the second inning!!!

So the Yankees win the game 3-0 and the losing team gets 4 hits. ... But what if they pitched a no-hitter? It's still a Yankee win -- but I get to see something rare.

...

I root for injuries in those split squad games.

redsock said...

One scenario where you might want to hope for a Yankee win:

New York leads the East by 5 games and has clinched with 3 games left in the season.

Boston is in a tie for the wild card with Detroit and the Yankees are ending the regular season against Detroit.

You might not run down the street waving a huge Yankees flag, but you'd probably want the Yankees to sweep the Tigers.

I would.

My hatred of all things Yankee would be less important than the Sox getting into the post-season.

L-girl said...

"Them v. Them"

Yes, that was it. And in the end, my love for NY and dislike of Boston won out.

It's not like a put a Mets cap on (yikes! can you imagine?) or pretended to be a Mets fan.

L-girl said...

you'd probably want the Yankees to sweep the Tigers.

I would.


Oh yeah, the wild card makes for some strange bedfellows.

Jere said...

"It's great to hear the "Let's Go Red Sox" chants in parks all over the country, but let's not pretend that existed before 2004."

You are totally wrong on this. Plenty of documented evidence, and evidence witnessed by me countless times.

I'm proud that I rooted for the D-Backs in '01. But I didn't pretend to be a fan of them, so that I could be a winner. I was just happy to see the Yanks lose.

New York was my (nearest) big city, too. I live here now. I love it. That doesn't mean I have to root for the teams. I'll defend what's good about NYC, but not what's bad about it.

Like I've said before, I know not ALL Sox fans are "true fans," or whatever you wanna call it. My point is that with the extreme front-running of lots of people who call themselves Yankee fans, there is a greater percentage of Sox fans who are true fans than Yankee fans who are.

L-girl said...

You are totally wrong on this. Plenty of documented evidence, and evidence witnessed by me countless times.

Well, I've been watching Red Sox games for a long time, and I've gone to many all over the country, and I've never heard the large groups of vocal Sox fans that are now obvious in almost every park.

I don't think it's a bad thing, I think it's great. It's like Sox fans have been freed from all the angst and bitterness and can have more fun now.

But to act like it existed before 2004 is a little silly. What is the "documented evidence" you refer to?

I'm proud that I rooted for the D-Backs in '01. But I didn't pretend to be a fan of them, so that I could be a winner. I was just happy to see the Yanks lose.

Exactly. You've described exactly what I and many other Yankee fans did with the Mets in 86. No more, no less.

New York was my (nearest) big city, too. I live here now. I love it. That doesn't mean I have to root for the teams. I'll defend what's good about NYC, but not what's bad about it.

Of course! Allan is/was a NYer, too. I would never think that means you have to cheer for the teams.

I was describing how I felt, growing up a Yankees fan, then seeing my city in the WS against our rivals.

And btw, "NY was my nearest big city" is not at all the same as being a New Yorker, as I'm sure you know. I have family in NJ, they love the Yankees, but they're not New Yorkers.

Like I've said before, I know not ALL Sox fans are "true fans," or whatever you wanna call it. My point is that with the extreme front-running of lots of people who call themselves Yankee fans, there is a greater percentage of Sox fans who are true fans than Yankee fans who are.

And this is based on what? Since you already believe that most Yankees fans are front-runners, how could you possibly separate who is and who is not a real fan?

Jere, you're the guy who declared "everyone who sits in the right-field bleachers are assholes". If that's what you already think, how could you fairly or accurately judge anyone?

L-girl said...

It's great to hear the "Let's Go Red Sox" chants in parks all over the country, but let's not pretend that existed before 2004.

I'm curious about other people's takes on this. (If anyone besides Allan is reading this.)

Did the very loud, proud chanting now heard all over the country go on before 2004?

There were always Sox fans cheering in the Bronx and in Baltimore, maybe in Toronto (although you didn't hear them on TV or radio from Skydome) and in Montreal. But all over, and so loud, as there are now?

Jere said...

Silly to act like it existed? It did exist. Documented evidence: Games on TV with the cheers in the background, pictures I have in other parks of the thousands of Sox fans around me, all pre-2004. If you check out my post from 4/10/05, I mention something about the pre-04 fans. I guess it doesn't prove my point, but still.

Not everyone grows up in a city with a team. So, I had no chance of being loyal to Ridgefield, Connecticut and rooting for their MLB team to beat others.

The front-running thing is based on the Yanks having the most championships by far. Because of that, they get more people jumping on board than any other team.

The bleacher creatures: I was referring to that specific group of Yankee fans, not just picking a random section and saying they're all bad.

L-girl said...

Well, I guess I didn't see the evidence that you do, even though I was exposed to the same things. To me, it's a very new phenomenon. As I said, I don't think that's a bad thing at all, I think it's great - but I do think it's new.

I wasn't faulting you for not growing up in a city. (I didn't either.) I was just pointing out the difference.

And yes, the Yankees will obviously have more front-runner pseudo-fans than the Red Sox, although I'm quite sure that since 2004 the Red Sox have some of their own, too. But how you, Jere, can tell who is who, that's another story.

I knew what you meant re right-field bleachers. I used to sit there all the time, so I know the Bleacher Creatures well, and enjoyed sometimes being swept up in the fervor. So you rag on the front-runner Yankee fans, and you rag on the real fans (which the B/Cs certainly are), so where does that leave us?

You paint Yankees fans with a very broad brush, then when someone calls you on it, you back away, and say that isn't what you meant.

What's amusing is how you sound indistinguishable from so many Yankees fans. Most of the fans on both sides are exactly the same. You're Exhibit A when it comes to that.

Well, enjoy the game tonight. It's got to get better, doesn't it?

Jere said...

I'm not backing away, I never would. I even clarified this for you before, saying that yes, I do believe all those guys in the RF bleachers are assholes, and I gave you the reasons why. You may have missed that answer, I don't even remember what blog it was on. And all the front-runners disgust me as well. You, a lot of people I know, a lot of people I've met at Yankee Stadium, are good people who grew up with the Yanks and had no choice, and some of you even proved smart enough to come over to the good side!

I'm still very confused as to how you could argue that there weren't crazy-loud Red Sox chants in visiting parks for years before 2004.

L-girl said...

Well, I'm still mystified how you could say there were.

I didn't cheer for the Yankees because I had to. I was very proud to be a Yankees fan and have no regrets. They brought me so much joy. When you're on your second marriage, it doesn't mean you hate your first love.

I will note that the Yankees-fan version of YOU is part of what drove me away. So don't push me back over there! ;-)

redsock said...

I think this is comment #51 -- gotta be a new JoS record!

..

There were plenty of Red Sox fans at Yankee Stadium (I know, I was one of them for 15+ years) and Baltimore.

I'm not sure how much of an influence they were at other parks. Part of that is because I did not have the cable package in most of those years to hear the reaction.

It is undeniable that the noise from Sox fans is greater post-2004 than it was pre-2004. Doesn't mean Sox fans weren't there before, though.

Maybe they come out more, maybe there is a bandwagon effect.

Who cares?

...

Jere, have you seen this whole "Yankee Universe" bullshit?

Jere said...

Yes, I have written about Yankee Universe. More of them trying to be us! And another reason why Damon just doesn't get it. He wants us to cheer him, but he goes and wears a "Yankees Universe" shirt.

This is something I paid really close attention to, our fans at other parks. We were just as loud before 2004, specifically 2003 and all season during 2004.

Jere said...

And I care. That's why I'm so passionate about this one topic especially. To hear Tim McCarver tell the nation that "Oh these people are just front runners," when we were ALWAYS there before, just makes me so mad. That was one thing that defined us. We were so proud to root for a team, regardless of when the last time they won was. Whereas, in my opinion, Yankee fans would've either stopped liking baseball, or switched over to the Mets, long before their team went 86 years without winning. Sorry, a LOT of Yankee fans.

L-girl said...

I care too, because I'm sick of hearing about what great fans Red Sox fans are, Red Sox fans congratulating themselves like they invented fandom.

Fans are fans. They come in all varieties and all degrees of loyalty. Red Sox fans are no better, no worse than fans of any other teams, and the same goes for Yankee fans.

Timmy's b/s drives me crazy too. The **worst** has got to be Michael Kay, acting like all the hate and invective only comes from one side.

But for me, there's no point in exaggerating in the other direction. Assholes on both sides, thinking fans on both sides, loyal fans on both sides, and now, even bandwagon fans on both sides.

redsock said...

We are better and we invented fandom.

Point, us.

L-girl said...

Oh, hey, if you put it that way! There's no arguing with such logic. :)