March 20, 2015

Pedro > Koufax


FenFan said...


allan said...

Cannot wait until Pedro's book comes out in early May!

allan said...

Another one:

"Pedro Martinez had a 228 ERA+ from 1999-2003. Cy Young had a career-best 219 ERA+ in 1901."

Michael said...

Koufax was amazing, but I still think he's a tad overrated. Unit, Roger and Maddux were always a notch above (and let's throw in Walter Johnson so it sounds less like recent memory bias).

Pedro had a better peak than any of those pitchers, and it's not even close if you factor in that it was a seven-year peak. In fact, Pedro's '99-'00 seasons were so otherworldly that they make his 206 ERA+ from '02-'03 seem crappy in comparison.

In fact, he had such a good peak that people tend to overlook the fact that his career stats are pretty incredible as well. (18 seasons, more than Koufax, Lefty Grove and Bob Gibson, with a 154 ERA+). I'm sure you all know the only person with a better carer ERA+ than Pedro, and he's the greatest closer of all time.

In my eyes it's not even close. Now if Kershaw keeps getting better, we may have a debate.

FenFan said...

Koufax was amazing in his own right. Overrated? I would disagree.

You have to remember that he retired after 12 seasons at age 30 because his arm had been taxed to the point where he needed serious meds to keep the arthritic pain under control. If he had continued to pitch, he probably would have lost use of the arm.

Yet he still managed to pitch four no-hitters over his last five seasons, including a perfect game in 1965 (second-to-last season), and actually had his highest single-season ERA+ in his last season. He was the first pitcher to average fewer than seven hits allowed per nine innings pitched in his career (6.79) and to strike out more than nine batters (9.28) per nine innings pitched in his career. He won three Cy Young awards when the award was given to a single MLB versus one for each league. His career WAR is 53.2, which is in the top 100 all-time.

Better than Pedro? No... but overrated? I disagree.