October 11, 2009

Wait 'til Next Year

[Globe website, 5 PM]

78 comments:

girlanachronism said...

Is he crying again??

Kevin said...

So is this going to be the rampant speculation and outlandish blockbuster trade proposals thread? Because I'm already working on some.

redsock said...

Papelbon's pitch selection:

Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Fastball
Intentional Ball
Intentional Ball
Intentional Ball
Intentional Ball
Fastball

Great plan, guys.

redsock said...

Win 2004 World Series

+3 years

Win 2007 World Series

+3 years

[Win 2010 World Series]

Kevin said...

Gameday called those all fastballs, but I think there was one splitter in there.

Still far too few considering it's his best pitch.

L-girl said...

I am very sad.

See you all in April.

Amy said...

I am also very sad, though not really shocked. Although I voted for the Sox in 5, I just didn't see it happening. Something just never seemed to click after the ASB with the team---either the bats were dead or the pitching was off or both in too many games. I know we had an overall strong record, but nevertheless, there just seemed to be something missing.

Maybe that sounds like sour grapes or Monday morning quarterbacking (a football metaphor!), but somewhere in some game thread, I remember expressing these same doubts. And I certainly have been expressing them about Papelbon long before July 28.

Anyway, just venting my frustration and sadness. At the moment, I am feeling mostly sad about not having game threads to enjoy for the next six months.

Thanks for another great season to all the JOSers, especially our hosts, Allan and Laura.

westcoastsox said...

I'm with Amy on the sinking feeling re Papelbon during the late season. However, I'm grateful for 95 wins and a trip to the playoffs, in 6 out of the last 7 years, including 2 WS wins, and so wait 'til next year it is. Theo will improve the team, to be certain, and we'll be back in it. Thanks for hosting all season.

mattymatty said...

It was a great season in lots of ways. I'm sad, angry, and disappointed that it's over.

[pause]

I can't wait for Spring Training. Bring on 2010!

redsock said...

Thank god this wasn't Game 5. (/silver lining (of sorts))

redsock said...

You cannot walk Figgins -- who was 0-for-7 with 4 K vs Bot -- with the Abreu-Hunter-Vlad beast behind him. You can't.

Pap fell behind 3-0, battled back to 3-2, then threw ball 4 way high. Just pour it right in there and make him earn it.

Christ.

mattymatty said...

I agree. I hated that call (the IBB) at the time too.

L-girl said...

I can now admit that I didn't really expect the Sox to go very far this postseason. I did expect to win today! But this wasn't a championship team. Stranger things have happened and I was going to keep believing to the end, but I certainly didn't expect a WS win this year.

I was absolutely shocked by what happened today. Papelbon has not been super reliable, but he hasn't been a Gagne-like disaster either. He is at fault for this game, no doubt about that. But the mediocre season rests on many shoulders.

So given the level of play we've seen all year, I'm not shocked that we lost in the 1st round. Just really really sad.

I don't talk/think/watch/care about baseball in the winter, even through spring training. Baseball occupies so much of my mind for 6 (or hopefully 7) months each year - the rest of the year is a true off-season for me.

L-girl said...

And thanks, everyone, for a great season together.

Amy said...

You did a better job of hiding your doubts than I did, Laura. I just never felt it this season. This team just didn't seem to have what it takes, despite all the talent of the individual players.

I will be very curious to see how the FO fills some of the holes in the team for next season, so to that extent I will follow baseball after today. What will happen to Lowell, Papi and Tek? Will we sign Bay? Who will we bring in or up to replace those who are no longer an active part of the team?

As for the post-season, I will be watching with Harvey, trying to figure out whether my love for him means I root for his team or whether it is just too repugnant to me as a Sox fan to root for them even after the Sox have been eliminated. A true dilemma!

redsock said...

As for the post-season, I will be watching with Harvey, trying to figure out whether my love for him means I root for his team or whether it is just too repugnant to me as a Sox fan to root for them even after the Sox have been eliminated. A true dilemma!

If you watch the games, something will emerge. (I was happy for L back in 1996, but when the WS began, that went away and I was quietly pulling for Atlanta.)

However the 2009 MFY can lose most painfully is what I want. Getting destroyed by the Angels or Torre's Dodgers would be acceptable, but getting blown out in the next three games by the Twins would be best.

L-girl said...

trying to figure out whether my love for him means I root for his team or whether it is just too repugnant to me as a Sox fan to root for them even after the Sox have been eliminated. A true dilemma!

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Amy, please seek medical attention immediately. You clearly have gone insane.

L-girl said...

I'm stunned that there is even a question.

L-girl said...

girlanachronism said...
Is he crying again??


Does anyone know what this means?

Amy said...

Hmmm, seems like Allan was equally insane back in 1996. Guess we know who the true romantics are!

Seriously, I imagine that when push comes to shove, I will never root for the Yankees in the WS. I am hoping it will be Dodgers v Yankees (if the Yankees get that far) since I would love to see Torre defeat his old team.

But for now, I am ok with the Yankees beating the Twins, especially since it seems hard to believe that anything else will happen.

So....call me insane or a traitor or just crazy in love, but that's where my head is tonight.

L-girl said...

Insane because it doesn't seem like you at all - not because it's wrong.

Think of the difference between now and 1996.

Then: no active rivalry to speak of.
Then: 15 years since last NYY win.

Since then... I won't list everything!

Plus Allan was happy for me because I was there, going to games. When WS time came around, that ended.

Allan can be very romantic, but not when it comes to the Yankees!

L-girl said...

Getting destroyed by the Angels or Torre's Dodgers would be acceptable, but getting blown out in the next three games by the Twins would be best.

I have to agree with this. I'd also HATE to see them win the AL pennant. Hate hate hate.

Last year I took a certain amount of shit because once we were out of it, I wanted Tampa to go all the way. Many people thought that was wrong b/c they beat us.

But I will root for the Angels a million times over if they're playing NYY in the ALCS.

Amy said...

You are trying to use logic when these things rarely come down to logic.

Like I said, I am happy to allow Harvey to be happy about the ALDS. After that, no guarantees at all.

Don't worry---I have not gone insane. Just sad that our season is over and trying to deal with it in whatever way I can!

SoSock said...

I am absolutely devastated.
We spent all day doing a very heart-wrenching, tear-jerking duty, I have had a daughter crying in my arms for the last 2 hours, and then I finally get a minute to check in and the damn Sox have just pissed the season away.

Fuck 'em.
And yes, that's just the reaction to what has not been a pleasant day.
I was absolutely convinced we would win today, and it sounds like we really should have. I haven't seen any highlights or anything. I must admit, though, after Friday's debacle I figured even if we won the 2 in Boston we would be lucky to win the 5th. But hell, we've been lucky before.
Oh well, I'll be following Allan's assessment of the off-season, since it will be much more reliable and objective than anything the mass media has to offer. And look forward to a few decent conversations along the way. All the while anxiously awaiting.........
TRUCK DAY!!!!!!

SoSock said...

One other thought.
I will be with Taylor in CA from Oct 28 through approximately Nov. 4. Then we leave together to drive across country. He has checked, and if the Dodgers are it from the NL, games 3-5 will ocur then, games 1-2 if it's LAA from the AL, and all 5 if it's both. He's already working on some inside tracks.
WOW!
Even the possibility of seeing a WS game, however remote it is, gives me chills.

L-girl said...

Fucking hell. They shoulda won it for SoSock.

At least one good thing happened to you in 2009, SoSock: your first trip to Fenway. Seeing the Green Monster from your hotel window. An amazing road trip with your buddy.

JoS1 was definitely a huge highlight of my year.

Amy said...

I am so sorry that you had a hard day, SoSock. I am sure the Sox are like salt in the wound right now.

And yes, JOS1 will always be a wonderful memory of the 2009 season---maybe the best memory of the season (and sadly, a precursor to Papelbon's meltdown today).

redsock said...

But I will root for the Angels a million times over if they're playing NYY in the ALCS.

Mike Scioscia is a genius.

A fucking genius, I tells ya.

Amy said...

OK, I admit it...I was just rooting for the Twins to score that run!

Guess my heart for the Sox is winning that battle. Shhhh....

redsock said...

But I refuse to listen to Buck and McMoron. Not sure how that will work.

Can we somehow get Vin Scully to call all LCS games?

Ish said...

The three teams I'd like to see win the World Series: Dodgers, Rockies, Twins.

Don't want Philadelphia to repeat.
Don't want the Yankees to win another game.
Don't want the Angels to win either. I hate the Angels.

Ish said...

Don't look now but Pavano's got good stuff. Keep that sinker low like it's a heavy turd.

Ish said...

Ah fuck. Just when I say it.

Ish said...

Ah DUDE. Delmon Young just fouled a ball off and hit him in the pills. OW.

What does he do the next pitch? Hits a double!

redsock said...

I was giving linescores in today's game thread. I guess I'll come over here.

SoSock said...

Okay, daughter decided drink was in order, has now had way too much and is asleep in her brother's bed.
He's mad :) brotherly love lives, even at 30 and 33.
Go Twinkies!

Ish said...

Fucking Punto. Where the hell was he going?

Kevin said...

If it weren't for the fact that I live in Pennsylvania and go to college in Philly, I'd be supporting the Angels.

That being said, go Phillies.

redsock said...

that's it twins, roll right over.

Kevin said...

Oh look, Joe Nathan continues to suck

tim said...

Twins shitting the bed. Great. Go FKAs.

Year-end comment coming later.

L-girl said...

If it weren't for the fact that I live in Pennsylvania and go to college in Philly, I'd be supporting the Angels.

That being said, go Phillies.


Kevin, I was in college in Philadelphia when the Phillies won in 1980. I have great memories of that October.

Amy said...

(Secretly rooting for the Twins here.)

redsock said...

Last call for the Twins.

L-girl said...

The Twins were totally overmatched.

I'm not going to watch the ALCS. I'm off to make my Zip list right now.

redsock said...

what happened out there? did someone try to get on the field?

Kevin said...

Damn

Fucking Twins roll over like they were us

"Nutball Gazette" said...

redsock said...
But I refuse to listen to Buck and McMoron. Not sure how that will work.

Can we somehow get Vin Scully to call all LCS games
-----------------------------------

As a Yankee Fan I am so with you, Vin Scully should be doing the games, He is the best, But it could be worse, It could be John Sterling and Waylin Susan doing the games.
Twins do not normally make bonehead mistakes but it cost them 2 games,

tim said...

Another good year, another disappointing end.

Now that we're done and all out in the open, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH AMY! For some reason after the ASB it just didn't seem to 'click' - as silly and irrelevant as 'gut feelings' from some random fan can be, this team just didn't 'feel' right. The JoS1 loss, Beckett's implosion in Toronto and subsequent suckatude, the inability to play the Yankees...Watching this team down the stretch, I just didn't get the same 'vibe' I did in 07 and hell, even last year. I didn't expect them to go deep into the playoffs and had a genuine concern about this ALDS matchup but thought they had a shot. Unfortunately, those thoughts included the team bringing their bats to Anaheim. This thought was not realized.

I expected this, but I hoped for the unexpected; an unlikely championship run. It ended in the worst of ways and Papelbon's complete and utter failure was NOT expected at all. It 'felt' like he had a shitty year, his ERA says otherwise but I haven't bothered to look into any other stats in-depth. Whatever the case, he was handed the ball with the game, series and season on the line and pitched like shit. [I could continue this thought but really don't feel like going on a long-winded diatribe about my experience watching the meltdown on GDGD in my grandparents' basement this afternoon, but I'll spare everyone whose still reading this at this point.]

But Jon Pap is not the reason why the season is over. Yes, his performance largely contributes to why we aren't playing tomorrow night, but this series ended so quickly as a result of our inability to hit for the first 18 innings of this series which put us in an 0-2 hole. And hey, kudos to the Angels, they were the far better team this time round. I can only hope they put up a fight against the steamrollin' MFY. I wouldn't be surprised if that one ends in 5 though.

So that's it for 2009, thank you to Allan and Laura for hosting us for another year, great to FINALLY meet you. We'll have to watch some games next year together, since our Mississauga ALCS plans didn't really pan out. Great to "hang out" with all of you JoSers, wish I could've met some of you in July but we will have to rebook for another time. Looking forward to what the offseason hotstove and 2010 season has to offer!

Ish said...

Um. Go Rockies! Go Dodgers!

Jeff Polman said...

The only silver lining of today's debacle is that the Angels always play the Yanks tough, certainly better than we managed against them in the second half, and have a great chance to beat them.

That said, instead of pitching carefully to Hunter with the open base, why walk the bases filled to pitch to Vlad, then give the Impaler anything even CLOSE to a strike? Horrible, horrible decisions, and you wonder if having Tek behind the plate would have helped. Probably not, because Captain Whiff would have had to hit.

Ah well, it was still fun weighing in on your threads. Wait till next decade!

Jeff Polman said...

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the Twins are an absolute fucking disgrace. They had the lead in all three games, and with even a moderate degree of intelligent base running and patient hitting they could have swept the goddamn series. I don't want to hear about Gardenhire's "genius" ever again.

9casey said...

Jeff Polman said...
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the Twins are an absolute fucking disgrace. They had the lead in all three games, and with even a moderate degree of intelligent base running and patient hitting they could have swept the goddamn series. I don't want to hear about Gardenhire's "genius" ever again.






The amazing part is that they actually made this series competitive, the yankees are 20 games better than then them with only one guy on the twins roster better then his counterpart....the fact is they got beat becuase they were that much better than them, if you can't see that then, oh well...


In my opinion yesterdays game, points back to what Pap said when they got Wagner, he said something like we all know are role and a new guy can mess up the flow........and he is right to a point, in the previous 2 years when wagner came in or when Bard came in , that was OKI's spot, but for some reason they buried him yesterday, if it ain't broke!

and once again he pinch hit for Alex, with Lowrie , the guy has seen 8 pitches all year , and has seemed overmatched in every at bat...

But 1-9 they were awful, it's too bad Pap will take it on the chin for this one when team hit less than .160....I saw people mentioning yesterday how it was good to see the bats come alive, they had 7 hits , that doesn't seem like alive to me....

But are staters , I thought pitched really well.....it will be intersting to see if Clay is stil on the block, his stock has to be up....

One move I would make.......get David Wright from the mets , when his stock is low....he would pepper that wall...

I also wouldn't be suprised if they let Bay walk...


I hope everyone has a nice offseason..........oh and by the way the turning point on this season was when Jere bugged out of game threads...

L-girl said...

The amazing part is that they actually made this series competitive, the yankees are 20 games better than then them with only one guy on the twins roster better then his counterpart....the fact is they got beat becuase they were that much better than them

Casey is right, I was about to post something similar.

It's one thing to hate NYY, it's another thing to delude yourself that they're not a good team this year, or that the friggin Twins could have beaten them, never mind swept them.

oh and by the way the turning point on this season was when Jere bugged out of game threads.

I hope you're not implying cause and effect?! :)

Jeff Polman said...

You guys are deluded if you think I'm deluded. I never ever suggested that the Twins belonged on the same field as the Yanks. But the facts remain: they were a hair away from winning the last two games and blew them.

redsock said...

In my opinion yesterdays game, points back to what Pap said when they got Wagner, he said something like we all know are role and a new guy can mess up the flow........and he is right to a point, in the previous 2 years when wagner came in or when Bard came in , that was OKI's spot, but for some reason they buried him yesterday, if it ain't broke!

Bard was in because Bard is better. He's progressed to be (at least) our best non-closer in the pen. And isn't Jeemer still a bit bothered by his sore side?

I don't buy that these guys, some of the best pitchers in the entire world, get flustered or don't know how to pitch effectively because it's the 7th inning and not the 8th.

Clay ain't going nowhere. He didn't get dealt this summer, was light out in August and most of September and did well yesterday.

A 5-2 lead after 7 and a 6-4 lead with 1 out to go is alive enough for me.

The series loss is not all Bot's fault, but you gotta admit: that was an epic choke job.

tim said...

As epic as the choke was, hey - at least we weren't up 3-0 in an ALCS when it happened and proceeded to piss away the next 3 games.

wardo said...

I had a distinct feeling of 2005 going into this postseason. Who knows what would have happened in Game 4, but we should have won Game 3, and Papelbon lost it for us.

Ish said...

Like I said in the game thread post: The offensive slumber party took away any margain for error. Had we split in California it would have been an epic choke job on Bot's part but we wouldn't be sitting here dreaming of Truck Day. We'd be gearing up for Game 4 tonight, even if Bot pissed Game 3 away.

Geoff said...

The Sox were just disjointed all season. They never really seemed to get everything going at the same time.

And they need to get so much better on the road.

Are there any position players in the minors that we can look forward to next year?

redsock said...

at least we weren't up 3-0 in an ALCS when it happened and proceeded to piss away the next 4 games.

Come on, Tim. Get out of your fantasy world.

NO TEAM could ever choke that bad.

Do you realize how fucking lame a team would have to be to choke away four straight games? I suppose you'll be telling me next that this imaginary team was three outs from a sweep in Game 4 and still blew it.

It was nice to try to cheer us up, though.

redsock said...

Are there any position players in the minors that we can look forward to next year?

No.

L-girl said...

The offensive slumber party took away any margain for error.

Correct. Absolutely.

But for me it's still down to Papelbon.

L-girl said...

great to FINALLY meet you. We'll have to watch some games next year together, since our Mississauga ALCS plans didn't really pan out.

I know, finally! Next year, games, for sure.

9casey said...

redsock said...


I don't buy that these guys, some of the best pitchers in the entire world, get flustered or don't know how to pitch effectively because it's the 7th inning and not the 8th.




It's amazing that they actually do get flustered , when taken out of their element...



redsock said:
Clay ain't going nowhere. He didn't get dealt this summer, was light out in August and most of September and did well yesterday.



Theo tried hard to give him and many others away in the summer , he is right now his best chip, and I would be suprised if he doesn't
dangle him in front of Seattle again, he has a hard-on for the King...and also is there any way possible that Jed (god-willing) is not the SS next year, or does he become the 3b. of screw and give away the youngsters for Mauer now and let Youk play third

redsock said...

Theo tried hard to give him and many others away in the summer , he is right now his best chip, and I would be suprised if he doesn't
dangle him in front of Seattle again, he has a hard-on for the King


A super mega-deal for Felix or someone like Adrian Gonzalez would be different.

and also is there any way possible that Jed (god-willing) is not the SS next year, or does he become the 3b

He's got to show he can be healthy first. I'm not sure the FO can count on that right now.

9casey said...

.....The one thing that sticks in my mind this season more than most in the past, we had a lot more dramatic loses than dramatic wins.......

9casey said...

One thing I promise to do next year............ proofread my posts.....

redsock said...

The Globe asks the question:

How painful was this loss?

* Worst since Buckner

* No biggie - the better team won

* A bad memory just until spring

...

Worst since Buckner??!!?!

Are you fucking kidding me?

I don't know who are the bigger idiots, the morons at the Globe for including that choice or the 14.7% of people who chose it.

9casey said...

Questions I have....

1.Is Dice-K tradeable?
2. Is Beckett tradeable?
3. Are they too good to trade?
4. Is Hanley still on the radar?
5. Has Theo realized SS has killed him the last few years?
6. How much does the FO regret not signing Tex?
7. Is there a chance the Yankees outbid us for Bay or Holliday, or both?
8. We still owe Mike Lowell 12m , What do they do about that?
9. Pap with something to prove good or bad?
10. Can they really improve this team , with the contracts they still owe to people?

I guess we wait til December...
The yankees went into this season knowing they vastly improved themselves, did we?......Have you had that feeling since the winter of 2003, when they got Foulke And Schilling?

redsock said...

Let's see:

1. Is Dice-K tradeable?

Everyone is tradeable for the right price, but I don't think they'd deal him. Trade might mean bad PR for the Sox brand in Japan. If Dice keeps his ass in shape, he's still a good deal for his salary.

2. Is Beckett tradeable?

I think they will let him walk after next year. Could be part of a plan to go after Felix.

3. Are they too good to trade?

No.

4. Is Hanley still on the radar?

Yes, but how realistic has a deal been? I can't recall the particulars, but it's always seemed like more of a fan's pipe dream than a serious possibility.

5. Has Theo realized SS has killed him the last few years?

Of course.

6. How much does the FO regret not signing Tex?

They were ready to spend for him, but it's clear he never had an intention of signing with the Sox, so I don't think they lose sleep.

7. Is there a chance the Yankees outbid us for Bay or Holliday, or both?

Always. It seems certain that Bay will test the market, but there is some chance he'd reach a deal before that. Can't see the MFY signing both though.

8. We still owe Mike Lowell 12m , What do they do about that?

Would they eat $12? They'd need another 3B or a 1B (with Yook moving back) to do that though. Seems like they'll muddle through with Lowell (3B/DH) and Lowrie.

9. Pap with something to prove good or bad?

Who knows? The frequent changes in his delivery this year are more troubling than Sunday's game. The injury risk + his salary going up (arb and then FA) + his desire for elite cash + the FO's clear objection to spending big bux for relievers = a possible trade this winter or next.

10. Can they really improve this team , with the contracts they still owe to people?

It'll be tough. More than a couple SoSHers are seeing the Sox treading water in 2010 and looking to 2011 when a number of contracts come off the books and there will be more possible help from the farm.

9casey said...

I like those answers, but I don't see them treading water(per the sons)....makes no sense for them to do that, makes everyone look bad.....

redsock said...

but I don't see them treading water(per the sons)....makes no sense for them to do that, makes everyone look bad.....

If they sign Bay, they could have all the starters back next year. Most of the rotation and pen too. They would still be a contender, though they might have a fight for the WC. They wouldn't finish 4th or anything.

Thinking long-term it might make sense to hold off on anything earth-shaking until '11 (when they could make a run at Mauer), when Tek will certainly be gone and Lowell, Ortiz, Beckett, Wakefield (and many other lesser lights) could/would be gone.

A Conformer said...

Well, a little belatedly, I want to thank Allan and Laura for yet another great season here at JoS. Having only one friend who's a baseball fan (and who lives in Boston, so I almost never get to see him) I very rarely get to see a baseball game with someone, or discuss it. The gamethreads have taken that role for me, and then some. So thanks everyone, for the great company.

I don't know how much I'll be able to thread next season. The time difference and the university will be a challenge, for sure. Maybe I'll just drop by on day games, or something. We'll see...

As to the game itself, I'm not even gonna comment on it.

A Conformer said...

As for "Is he crying again?", L, I'm pretty sure she (just guessing on the "she") was referring to VMart crying when he was traded from Cleveland.

Amy said...

Best of luck in school, Ofer. Stay in touch!

soxwarrior said...

It just felt like we didn't have that killer instinct from the beginning. It was bad time to go through another one of our "no offense" ruts again. Seemed like the Sox didn't have the desire, they possessed in the past. Pap - did this before where he never varied his pitch and then got hit. Youk looked bad even though the ump..sucked at first. He still could have picked us up with better hitting. Ellsbury seemed to be the only one that was on his game. I'd really tired of easy out Pappi and wish him well somewhere else. When you put your DH down below 5th in order what are you saying? I'd like for them to keep Gonzalez and get Jason Bay back. I really like Victor Martinez and it seems like that's the end or limited role for Varitek. I think pick up a good DH and we're good to go. Bard looked great. I hope they get Wagner for a cheap rate. Otherwise - I enjoy Epstein's deal making in the off season.

redsock said...

When you put your DH down below 5th in order what are you saying?

According to my quick count, games in which the DH batted below the 5th spot:

Yankees: 35
Red Sox: 30

BUT:

Games in which the DH batted in the 7-8-9 holes:

Yankees: 29
Red Sox: 4