June 1, 2007

G53: Yankees 9, Red Sox 5

A poor showing from Wakefield (3.2-5-8-6-2, 81) put the Sox in a deep hole in the 4th. And despite holding a 9-3 lead, the Yankees used six relief pitchers (one was ejected) to get the final 10 outs.

Manny had four hits, Ortiz and Pedroia had three, and Youkilis extended his hitting streak to 23 games.



***

Chien-Ming Wang (4.13, 103 ERA+) / Tim Wakefield (3.36, 133 ERA+)

Redsox.com:
Wakefield won for the first time in three starts Saturday against the Rangers in Arlington, giving up four runs on five hits in seven innings. Over his past three starts, Wakefield has allowed 15 runs over 19 innings. In three starts this season at Fenway, he is 1-2 with a 4.05 ERA and has allowed three home runs in 20 innings. The knuckleballer is 0-2 with a 7.84 ERA in two starts this year against the Yankees, who are batting .326 against him. ...

Wang allowed three runs in the first inning of his previous start against the Angels but settled in to hold the Halos scoreless over the next seven innings of a six-strikeout, six-hit performance. Wang's early issues were related to his arm slot, which is a topic that catcher Jorge Posada and pitching coach Ron Guidry have had to remind him often to keep up. Wang hasn't allowed a home run to a right-handed batter all year and has induced at least one ground-ball double play in each of his past seven starts, matching the longest streak of his career.

148 comments:

redsock said...

Round 4!!!

We lead the series 6-3.

redsock said...

Beginning of first series, April 20: Red Sox 1 GA.

Beginning of second series, April 27: Red Sox 5.5 GA.

Beginning of third series, May 21: Red Sox 9.5 GA.

Beginning of fourth series, June 1: Red Sox 13.5 GA.

Pokerwolf said...

It's rather scary that if we sweep this series we'll be 3.5 games away from the big 2-0 games ahead statistic.

Wicked pissah.

Jere said...

Just a side note on that "list" from the comments in the Zimmer post: Total spammer. Saw the same comment at Red Sox Chick (http://www.redsoxchick.com/blog/arod-is-a-tool-take-note-im-sure-ill-use-this-title-again-th.html#comments), and at Triumphant Sox Fan (http://triumphantredsoxfan.blogspot.com/search/label/attitude)

Sometimes it's "Paul," sometimes it's "John." (What, are the '86 Mets bat boys messin' with us?) I still haven't looked at the list, but I'm gathering from the comments that always follow that it's one of those pre-04 style "Yanks are better than Sox because..." lists.

chief said...

Extra Bases is reporting that Carl Pavano is having reconstructive elbow surgery on Tuesday.

I also saw that Giambi is out for 3 weeks at least (could be the rest of the season) with torn tissue in his foot.
___

Here is a flickr link to photos I took from the Green Monster during Dice-K's start against the Braves. Amazing seats, we had a blast sitting up there. I uploaded full size images, so you can really see detail if you view the "original" size.

GK said...

I guess the spectators will shout/scream "Mine" when A-Rod appears. They should do it in the way the seagulls in "Finding Nemo" did it. "maaine maaaine maaaine........"

CaKeY said...

"They should do it in the way the seagulls in "Finding Nemo" did it. "maaine maaaine maaaine........"

LMAO!! Now THAT would be funny!!

redsock said...

From the Wang link above:

CI: "We need to win. Every game is important. We need to win every time we go out there. We have to have the attitude of that we need to win, because we don't have the luxury of not playing well."

Slappy: "A lot of people in baseball are laughing and enjoying what's going on, and I'm not OK with that. This is very frustrating to be involved with, but we'll turn it around."

Or not.

Pokerwolf said...

"This is very frustrating to be involved with, but we'll turn it around."

Apparently, teams "turn it around" by distracting other players and then acting like nothing happened. It doesn't surprise me that this sort of thing is the only way the Yankees can win a game these days.

redsock said...

Do the MFY need a sweep?

If they take 2 of 3, they get to within 12.5. ... Only 1 of 3 leaves them 14.5 out.

Jere said...

They need a sweep, but there's a better chance they get swept.

Zenslinger said...

My feeling is about what it was when we went to NY: They need a sweep to get a real momentum boost. They won't get it. If they take two, they still can't feel that good about themselves.

I think we'll take two, but I don't smell a sweep for us either.

L-girl said...

If they take 2 of 3, they get to within 12.5. ... Only 1 of 3 leaves them 14.5 out.

So even if they did sweep, which we're certainly not expecting, we're still miles ahead of them.

I'm sure we'll win at least 2 of 3.

redsock said...

1. Julio Lugo, SS
2. Kevin Youkilis, 1B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Manny Ramirez, LF
5. J.D. Drew, RF
6. Mike Lowell, 3B
7. Coco Crisp, CF
8. Doug Mirabelli, C
9. Dustin Pedroia, 2B

1. Johnny Damon, DH
2. Derek Jeter, SS
3. Hideki Matsui, LF
4. Alex Rodriguez, 3B
5. Jorge Posada, C
6. Robinson Cano, 2B
7. Bobby Abreu, RF
8. Josh Phelps, 1B
9. Melky Cabrera, CF

redsock said...

The big question: What feed will MLBTV give us?

L-girl said...

NESN on EI. Plus the blog is back!

Rain delay, tarp is off, game is supposed to start around 7:30.

redsock said...

NESN on MLBTV, at least before the delay.

redsock said...

Here we go! SWEEP!

L-girl said...

Listen for those chants...

L-girl said...

I just heard it: "Hey A-Rod, it's mine, it's mine, I got it...!"

redsock said...

Hell of a play by Lowell!!!

L-girl said...

Me and you on the game thread so far. :)

redsock said...

People wearing masks behind the MFY dugout -- girl's face with blond hair -- and maybe waving something??? Hard to tell what with MLBTV's great reception.

L-girl said...

Yup, blonde masks, very silly! Cute.

redsock said...

any outs must be pops between third and short, please.

redsock said...

Wang has not allowed a HR to a RH batter this year.

Here comes Manny.

L-girl said...

MANNY!!

L-girl said...

Phelps: oops! Bases loaded already.

L-girl said...

Drink on "miscue". And since it's Wake & Mirrabelli, drink on "theft".

Wait a sec, I had a hangover this morning. Maybe better not.

redsock said...

Giambi would have had it!!!!

redsock said...

Nice little shot of Torre in the dugout after the E. Doesn't look like a happy guy.

redsock said...

MLBTV comes in late - misses the first 2 pitches to Slappy.

GOD -- how much more can MLB suck???

redsock said...

Maybe missed 3 pitches.

Unbelievable.

L-girl said...

Reggie Smith is in the booth w/ Don & Jerry. Interesting to hear the opening day crowd in 1967 was about 10,000.

L-girl said...

Rut-row. Cano.

redsock said...

jesus, tim, come on!

dp for the dud.

L-girl said...

Geez, 4 walks this inn.

L-girl said...

Kyle Snyder's up in the pen.

redsock said...

synder up already.

dp for ci???

redsock said...

A TANGIBLE DP!!!!!!!!!!!

let's go, bats!!

redsock said...

Idiot Jetes.

3 straight walks -- 12 of 13 pitches were balls -- and he hacks at the first one.

:>)

L-girl said...

Dusty!! I love that little guy.

redsock said...

nice dusty double.

redsock said...

Did Jerry read the post about Lugo's RBI %? I guess not.

L-girl said...

Ha, Yankees on the way to the dugout, pitch called a ball.

redsock said...

sit down, joe!!!!!

L-girl said...

YOOOOOK bb

redsock said...

wang's distracted/rattled.

get it cranked up, flo!!!

L-girl said...

Yeah Papi!! Here we go!

redsock said...

There's a ball. [/kay]

L-girl said...

Manny again! We're all over the bases tonight. It's great.

Did you see Manny? Flapped his arms, why didn't anyone score?

redsock said...

I love Manny. Where's my freakin' RBI????

L-girl said...

Come on Drew. You do know how to hit...

L-girl said...

Jerry just said "the Yankees should be in the dugout, that pitch to Youkilis was a strike".

redsock said...

probably was a strike.

wang's pc: 23-26 = 49
Wake's pc: 9-31 = 40

Sir Jahmez said...

Sell Drew. He's not worth it.

L-girl said...

Sir J, you're kidding right?

Quite the greeting for Alex tonight! :)

redsock said...

DOn: "A-Rod's gonna be about as out as you can be."

MANNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

L-girl said...

Alex out at second!!! And the crowd goes WILD!!!!!!

Don't be running on Manny.

redsock said...

Sit down, Dumbo!!

redsock said...

DP with the ball waiting for Slappy to come into the tv screen to lay the tag on him.

Gold!

Zenslinger said...

On the phone with my brother, trying not to scream as Slappy gets slapped off second.

L-girl said...

All these years on TV, and Jerry still get read a promo.

redsock said...

Has Remy ever read a promo without screwing it up? Ever?

redsock said...

Drew will silence the haters.

L-girl said...

I think so too.

L-girl said...

Some leather-lungs sitting behind 3rd is giving it to Alex nonstop. Sounds like that guy in Tampa Bay.

redsock said...

What would make Alex try for a double? That team must be cursed.

L-girl said...

A Coco theft!

redsock said...

Love that porous infield defense.

Let's go, Dusty!

redsock said...

Since that ball call on Yook, 6 of 7 Sox batters have reached base.

L-girl said...

Did I mention I love Dusty??? Another double and we're tied!!!

redsock said...

Shemp falls down!!!!

Move DP to the leadoff spot tomorrow. No more Lugo or Crispy.

redsock said...

DP hitting .320. OBP nicely over .400.

L-girl said...

Jerry's talking about how infielders always used to yell stuff out like Alex did. "In my day that happened all the time. If you're dumb enough to fall for it, shame on you."

He's saying unless it just stopped happening in the last few years, the Blue Jays complaining about it are nuts.

L-girl said...

He's comparing it to all different deaks.

redsock said...

lost a comment saying the same thing about remy.

"it's only new if you've had your head in the sand."

L-girl said...

That's why I hate when Red Sox fans pay so much attention to something like that. It's just part of the game.

redsock said...

PC Wang: 23-26-25 = 74.

redsock said...

Remy: "You ought to know the voice of your shortstop or second baseman."

Said that's nothing compared to what you hear when you go over by the opposing dugout for a pop-up.

L-girl said...

Abreu "gets the bad news"!

L-girl said...

A bench-clearing ball *within* a dugout? They showed a highlight from Chicago.

redsock said...

i'll have to root around for it. can't it or hear it on mlbtv.

c'mon timmeh!

L-girl said...

Crap. WP, NYY up 4-3. Snyder up again.

L-girl said...

Carlos Zambrano should get some of whatever Sexy Lips is taking. Goes after his catcher in the dugout, splits his lip? Guy's got some problems.

redsock said...

is josh bard available?

fuckin' belly. you are here for one thing, could you do it?

redsock said...

aj pierzynski is apparently the biggst asshole in baseball. c-zam may have reached his limit.

L-girl said...

Pzy was not involved. Zambrano went after Barrett.

redsock said...

wake: 3.2 IP, 5 H, 6 R (so far), 6 BB, 2 K

81 pitches (38 strikes, 43 balls - ooof!)

pc by innings: 9-31-9-32.

redsock said...

Oh.

Don/Jerry mentioned Pzy, so I thought it was him.

L-girl said...

Don was saying that Zambrano once went after Pzy too.

L-girl said...

Oh come on! Can we put any more of these yankees on base? The last 3 runs were our own fault.

L-girl said...

Um, make that the last 6 runs.

redsock said...

well. gotta get 10 tonight.

L-girl said...

At least 10.

L-girl said...

taking a break from game thread, back later

redsock said...

me too. i got work.

L-girl said...

i don't

TrailBlazer said...

I hope I am not the only that thinks Wakefield totally sucks!

L-girl said...

You are. Wake had a bad night. That's all.

redsock said...

Why was Torre tossed?

L-girl said...

Abreu caught stealing 3rd - replay showed he was safe - Torre argued vociferously.

redsock said...

A Devil Rays fans signed your petition saying that interleague is great.

He said that as he signed a petition demanding that interleague be abolished.

Moron.

redsock said...

Rays lost. NYY better hold on here.

L-girl said...

"A Devil Rays fans signed your petition saying that interleague is great. "

Yes I know. I had a nice chuckle over that.

L-girl said...

As NESN cameras show Sox fans wearing blond masks, Jerry says, "Yes, those are adults doing that..." :)

L-girl said...

"What about Pee Wee Herman?"

Don loses it.

L-girl said...

Jerry claims he didn't have his picture taken with Donald Trump, Don says "revisionist history". Calls him The Trumper! They're on a roll.

L-girl said...

Dusty 3 for 3!

redsock said...

Work done. I'm back to watch the rally and win.

Sir Jahmez said...

14.4 million / yr - J.D. Drew
$440,000 / yr - Youk
(from espn.com)

How is Drew worth it? Especially now that he has a strained right hamstring. L-girl and Redsock - you are nice people, but please explain your reasoning of why he's worth it.

L-girl said...

Yook keeps the hit streak alive. I'm gonna watch the comeback w/ out the computer. I'll come back when they win. :)

L-girl said...

You're judging from a very small sample size. If you follow baseball, you know that all players have slumps and streaks, ups and downs.

As for his contract, I'm not paying it, I don't care what he earns.

Comparing Drew's salary to Yook's is ridiculous. Yook is homegrown, and at the very beginning of his ML career, so he's a bargain. If he continues to hit like this, you can be sure that one day he'll contract will grow, too.

Why compare those two salaries?

redsock said...

Apples and oranges, Sir. There is no way for Yook to earn "Drew money" this early in his career.

Drew career #:
.391 OBP
.502 SLG
130 OPS+

Jeter's career OPS+: 120

Sir Jahmez said...

It would be interesting to see salaries based on stats.

Sir Jahmez said...

Ok, Ok I know you are smarter than me redsock with stats, but I'm just a disgruntled fan when it comes to J.D. Drew. It would be cool to have 28 Youks for the price of one Drew.

redsock said...

It would be interesting to see salaries based on stats.

Not to me.

You could do it, though. Use something like Runs Created and figure out how many runs a player produces per million bucks.

Naturally, you have to adjust for the point in a career. Otherwise, you'd probably find the best teams would be those made up solely of players in their first 3 years of their careers.

Hell, Pedroia's a much better bargain this year than Ortiz or Manny or Lowell or Schilling.

redsock said...

A great circular sentence from Don: "Mike Myers faced one batter, which is not uncommon for Mike Myers."

ESPN was taking several potshots at Drew the other night (and Manny too), comparing JD's 5-year contract with Trot's one-year deal as if they were of the same length. It was surreal: $3 M versus $70 M. As if Trot would not have signed a 5/70 deal of offered one.

I wish salaries were a complete secret. It would do away with one weapon the media and fans can bash players with.

No one making less than $14 M would say No if someone offered them $14 M. Period.

redsock said...

Jerry: Manny cut off Damon's throw because Damon has a fucking noodle arm. Only way the ball would get to the infield.

...

"HE LOVES STRIPPERS!"

L-girl said...

It would be cool to have 28 Youks for the price of one Drew.

Perhaps your boss can get 10 of you and pay them each 10% of your salary.

Drew is having a rough time, no doubt. But I don't understand singling him out like he's the curse of the team or something. I don't understand the obsession with his (or anyone else's) salary. Maybe you listen to too much talk radio. Or you're very new to the sport and you don't know about slumps? I don't know.

L-girl said...

Manny cut off Damon's throw because Damon has a fucking noodle arm. Only way the ball would get to the infield.

It was still amusing.

L-girl said...

I wish salaries were a complete secret.

God, me too. More than anything, I hate the friggin hypocrisy.

redsock said...

I'd buy 2 copies of that DVD -- but it should also have his great catches (Cairo!), throws, and various other alert things (telling the Rockies 1B that his coach was trying to signal to him to play off the bag).

redsock said...

here we go!!!

redsock said...

Hey, Yook, rip off one of Dumbo's ears and eat it!!!

redsock said...

WTF?

Mattingly pulling Villone after 2 pitches and bringing in Rivera???

WTF???

L-girl said...

6 run lead w/ two outs to go and the Yankees can't trust their bullpen, bringing in Mo. Amazing.

L-girl said...

I'd buy 2 copies of that DVD -- but it should also have his great catches (Cairo!), throws, and various other alert things (telling the Rockies 1B that his coach was trying to signal to him to play off the bag).

It's gotta have the double pointing, coming out with the fan's sign (MBM), "Jeter's playing golf, this is better", and lots and lots and lots of great hits.

redsock said...

gotta be more than that.

it's still 9-3. one ball to manny and mattingly comes wandering out.

why not see if villone can get outs? can always bring him in later. highly odd.

redsock said...

and bobbing his head while sitting next to that huge pedro bobblehead doll.

redsock said...

TrailBlazer said...
I hope I am not the only that thinks Wakefield totally sucks!


Going into tonight's game, he was without a doubt our second best starter.

ERA+
Beckett - 168
Wakefield - 133
Schilling - 121
Matsuzaka - 92
Tavarez - 82

tim said...

now normally i'm a fan of yahoo sports' synopsis of the game (the AP version), but tonight's recap left a sour taste in my mouth (after i puked a little in it)

i dunno i just got a real bad vibe from it. clearly a much pro-yankees writer who did this one. i've never been so disgusted with the quality of the recap as i was tonight. i didnt see the game, and this outright bashing of the Red Sox/the fans/fenway is disgraceful. the AP can go fuck itself.

redsock said...

"longstanding anger"

That is so 2003, Mr. AP.

It sounded like people having fun to me. Just like they have fun doing it in the Bronx. Just like they have had fun doing it in every sports arena since the beginning of time.

But I guess that was a bit much for the bluehairs at the AP -- who obviously had never seen, attended or read about a Red Sox-Yankees game before.

Why do the least-qualified people get the most coveted jobs?

s1c said...

Well, I was looking at some of the figures fore game 54 this morning after work. Thought you might find this interesting.

The last time that Schilling beat the Yankees in Fenway (3 starts ago) was on 5/22 2006 when he won his 199th game. In two starts at Fenway since then he has pitched 14 innings with a 5.14 ERA and a WHIP of 1.14. The 5/22 game was his last decision vs the Yankees at Fenway.

Mussina's last win at Fenway was on 8/28/2002 (losing pitcher was Pedro). He pitched a 3 hit shut out in that game. Since then in six starts he has gone 33 2/3 innings with a 5.88 ERA and a WHIP with an 0-2 record. Only one of those games would be considered a quality start. His last start on 8/20/2006 he only went 4 innings (his shortest of the 6 starts).

Of course as usual more inane statistical crap at Peace, Love and Lots of Sox

L-girl said...

The last time that Schilling beat the Yankees in Fenway (3 starts ago) was on 5/22 2006 when he won his 199th game.

...

Mussina's last win at Fenway was on 8/28/2002


Do you see this as relevant to today's game - and how so?

s1c said...

L-girl said...
Do you see this as relevant to today's game - and how so?

Its not relevant to game 53, but it is relevant to game 54 (I thought I said that if not oops). Schilling and Mussina are the starters today (6/2) right?

Also, I did say that it was Inane statistical crap. ;)

L-girl said...

Yes, I meant today's game, G54. I'm not needling you, I'm actually asking.

How is Schilling's last win against the Yankees at Fenway relevant? I know people repeat these factoids, but I don't know what they mean, if anything.

L-girl said...

Also, I did say that it was Inane statistical crap. ;)

True, you did. :)

I assumed you were joking, but if you actually believe it to be inane crap, then I take back my question.

s1c said...

The inane is sorta tongue in cheek, as for the last win against the Yankees for Schilling and Mussina at Fenway, ballparks do matter in pitching. Fenway has been a lot kinder to Schilling than he thought it would be. His home record as a Sox is 21 and 6, I think, but against the Yankees its 4 and 2?

As for Mussina, over his career he has no decisions about 20% of the time but vs the Sox in Fenway its around 30%. I just thought it was interesting that two quality border line HOF pitchers would struggle against these teams so much.

Makes me wonder if either one should be in the HOF, etc, etc.

redsock said...

But in many of those games, the pitcher was not facing the same hitters. "Against The Tigers" or "against the Reds" means nothing if it involves games over 3, 6, 10 years.

That's why when whoever says that Mussina is 19-15, 3.58 against the Red Sox, it is 101% meaningless. Those stats go back to 1991 -- when Dustin Pedroia was 7 years old.

redsock said...

Mussina's last win at Fenway was on 8/28/2002 (losing pitcher was Pedro). He pitched a 3 hit shut out in that game. Since then in six starts he has gone 33 2/3 innings with a 5.88 ERA and a WHIP with an 0-2 record.

Mussina's next start was also against Boston (September 2). But after that, his next appearance against the Sox was on May 28, 2003.

The Red Sox lineup included: Damon, Walker, Garciaparra, Millar, Hillenbrand, Mueller, Nixon. Those 7 guys are not on the team anymore.

So how is Mussina's performance that day (8 IP, 3 R) relevant to today's game?

L-girl said...

ballparks do matter in pitching

Certainly. Then I believe the relevant statistics should be the pitcher's performance (not wins) in a given ballpark overall, over time, not against specific teams.

Schilling at Fenway vs Schilling at Yankee Stadium vs Schilling elsewhere, and same for Mussina.

Mussina's numbers might be a bit more relevant because he's been in the AL his whole career, unlike Schilling.

redsock said...

And in that Sept. 2 game, Mussina also faced Daubach, Floyd, and Rey Sanchez. Those are part of the 5.88 ERA you mention.

redsock said...

Certainly. Then I believe the relevant statistics should be the pitcher's performance (not wins) in a given ballpark overall, over time, not against specific teams.

Even that doesn't tell you much.

Pitching in the Bronx and facing the 1991 Yankees and the 1998 Yankees are clearly two very different clubs, both in players and talent.

L-girl said...

Pitching in the Bronx and facing the 1991 Yankees and the 1998 Yankees are clearly two very different clubs, both in players and talent.

Absolutely. I'm saying that if you wanted to see how a pitcher fared in one park vs another park, you wouldn't look at per park per team - just per park. And of course you shouldn't look at wins at all.

s1c said...

Well, I see that you continued talking about this while I was mowing the lawn. Sorry, about that but I was tired of the looking at my lawn being 1" + higher than my neighbors.

Fine, all of your points are good about them facing different batters etc. but last time I looked since the Pedro game the following players were on the Sox Varitek, Ramirez and Ortiz. Combined those three are 43 of 192.

Furthermore should we extend that logic to hitters. Why should I expect Manny to hit 35 HR's every year. After all, just because he did it last year, and the year before etc against different pitchers does that mean he is going to do it this year?

I say yes because that is what his history says he will hit and we haven't seen any steady decline.

As for the relevance, any stats that you use in my opinion are just starting points for discussion. Wins and losses for pitchers are only part of the story when talking about starters. How long do they last in the game, in Mussina's case my point was that since his 3 hit shutout at Fenway he averages just under 5 2/3 innings. 5 2/3 innings and he had 4 no decisions and 2 losses in those six games which means most of his starts were decided by the bullpen!

If he continues that trend today, then this becomes our bullpen against their bullpen. Which one would you choose?

As for the can't compare since 1991 I didn't compare all 24 starts. I just took the last six starts at Fenway (I was looking for a trend and #38 has only 8 starts so sample size is close). His 18 games before that he had a 2.94 ERA, isn't an ERA that has doubled significant? How about how WHIP is 1.72 in those six compared to 1.07 in the prior starts?

I want to be clear, I don't think stats are the be all to end end alls when it comes to baseball. If you look back I want to keep Gonzalez at SS this year, because I thought his glove added more value than Lugo's bat. I also don't think you are picking on me or anything else by dismissing the stats. To me they add value to my enjoyment of the game. Will Varitek continue his hot hitting vs Mussina (was like 2 for 48 is now 7 for 57 lifetime)?

Besides you got ten+ more comments and isn't that the name of the game?

I just thought that I would compare the two starting pitchers histories at Fenway.

redsock said...

I certainly wasn't picking on you -- and the career mark was something TV guys use all the time. I just question how much you can glean from those types of stats.

And personally, I'd throw W/L right out the window. Use IP/start or something.

s1c said...

redsock said... And personally, I'd throw W/L right out the window. Use IP/start or something.

For you I'll actually break it down vs saying 33 in 6. As for the picking call it he who shall not be named itis. I know you weren't or at least I didn't take it that way, I just wanted to make sure that you guys knew that.

Also, if you remember earlier in the year when Tim, you etc were talking about Lester, that was one of my points I made about Lester needing seasoning, because he pitched so many 5 inning starts last year because of his pitch counts.