Do you feel like they want you to go your separate ways?Benjamin also got a lengthy quote from Julio Lugo about Manny.
"I don't know, that's my idea. ... I know they got me, but enough is enough. I'm tired of them, they're tired of me. ...
When they've talked to you, have they expressed their problem with you?
"Boston is not stupid. They're not going to do it. They can say whatever they want. But when it comes to making a deal, they're not going to pull the trigger, because they know what they've got here."
Are you happy here?
"I'm happy. But enough is enough."
When you say "enough is enough," what does that mean?
"That's it. You've got to ask Tito and John Henry, they know."
***
Quotes from a telephone interview with Enrique Rojas, ESPNdeportes.com:
"If the Red Sox are a better team without Manny Ramirez, they should trade me; I will not object. I don't have any preferences: I could choose a team that offers me the best conditions or one in the chase for the postseason. I don't care where I play, I can even play in Iraq if need be. My job is to play baseball."So Manny says that he's willing to go play somewhere else (even a team that has no shot at the playoffs) if the Red Sox feel that being without him gives them a better shot at a championship?
"If they can get a trade, I'd approve it. If they can't trade me, then they will simply have to inform me by the end of the season that they won't use the options and we'll go separate ways. I don't want to be a problem and a distraction to the Red Sox in such a critical moment of the season. I want to help the team, even if that means I have to go."
"I'm a ballplayer with more than 500 home runs and almost 2,000 RBIs. I'm a professional. I don't know how anybody can say I could be making it all up [faking an injury]."
"The Yankees are getting closer and getting stronger, while we haven't done much. I could say that right now there's a strange atmosphere in our team."
What a selfish clubhouse cancer!
24 comments:
What a great statement!
And, of course, there is no POSSIBLE trade that could be made that will make the Sox a better team while subtracting Manny Ramirez.
Which is why there won't be any trade.
So ... WTF!
Check this out from the Knights post -- we've got too many Manny threads going!
Herald, July 16 (via Baseball Musings):
"I want to know what's my situation." Ramirez told Bradford, which is a little puzzling when you consider even casual Sox fans know his situation. ... "I want no more (expletive) where they tell you one thing and behind your back they do another thing," Ramirez said. "I think I've earned that respect for a team to sit down with me and tell me this is what they want, this is what they want to do."
And MLB:
Manny: "I want to stay in Boston, but I want to sit down after the season with ownership and see what my future is going to be in Boston. ... I just want them to tell me, 'We're going to take it year by year,' or, 'We're going to do this.' That's fine. Just so I know what's going on with my situation."
***
So Manny wants to know what's going on -- and he wants to talk to the Red Sox after the season. Fine. Perfectly normal. And THAT'S the situation!
He says he wants to know his situation, but then says stuff that makes it clear he knows he will not know the situation until November, at the earliest. Even if Boston says "we don't want you next year, go be a free agent," he still won't know which of the other 29 teams he'll be with!
Is it safe to say the post-08 situation is NOT a big deal to Manny? And if it's not, then WTF is going on?
there's a strange atmosphere in our team
Yes. My head is hurting.
I just wanna watch a game! 2 hours!
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report: Manny says he's open to a trade
Posted by Gary Dzen, Boston.com Staff
July 27, 2008 05:54 PM
****
HA! I posted this 12 fucking minutes before the Globe!!!
While at work!!! Yay me!!!
I've been reading Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72, and the current Red Sox team would have been perfect for ol' HST to cover. Strange times right now...strange times.
Right now, as a betting man, I'd lay something like 25-1 odds Manny is traded and 2-1 odds he leaves after the season. jack marshall has it right in that there's no real trade out there that could help the Red Sox, although I'd add the caveat "right now" - a deal for Holliday or Tex, provided Boston can lock them up, would help the team down the line. Aside from that, unless St. Louis decides they don't want Pujols anymore, it's hard to imagine what Boston could get to keep their offense as strong (relatively speaking) as it is right now.
Manny's statement put a smile on my face. It was exactly what you'd want him to say in this position. One thing the media tends to forget, over and over again, is that this is not a stupid man they are dealing with.
Tito says he knows nothing about this Manny report:
"He never said anything to me. ... I'll take a guy hitting .500 who is miserable, as opposed to somebody who is passing out bouquets of roses to his teammates and he's hitting .145. That's kind of how it is."
MANNY DIDN'T TELL TITO!!! ALERT STEVE BUCKLEY!! AAAOOOOO-GAAAA! AAAOOOOO-GAAAA!
Manny expands on his statements, as reported by AB:
"What I said was if the Red Sox they think they could find a trade that's going to make the team better and both sides are going to be happy, I'm going to agree. But if they cannot find a trade ... It's something simple. It's no big deal. At the end of the season, all they've got to do is call my agent and say, 'Hey, we're not going to pick Manny's option for '09, he's going to become a free agent. And that's it. I go my way, and you guys go your way, something simple."
Do you feel like they want you to go your separate ways?
"I don't know, that's my idea. That's it, something simple. I don't want to talk to them about contracts right now. So what? I know they got me, but enough is enough. I'm tired of them, they're tired of me. After 2008, just send me a letter or whatever. You don't even got to call my agent or whatever. 'Hey, thank you for everything. You're going to become a free agent. We're not going to pick up your option in '09.'"
Do you expect that to happen?
"That will happen. They're not stupid."
When they've talked to you, have they expressed their problem with you?
"Boston is not stupid. They're not going to do it. They can say whatever they want. But when it comes to make a deal, they're not going to pull the trigger, because they know what they've got here."
Are you happy here?
"I'm happy. But enough is enough."
When you say "enough is enough," what does that mean?
"That's it. You've got to ask Tito and John Henry, they know."
****************
I'm going to make a bold assumption here--that the ESPN Desportes interview was conducted in Spanish. So Manny makes a clear and rational statement in his native language. Shocking.
Manny also offers his perceptions on the mood in the clubhouse based on external events. This is a guy who tanks at-bats and quits on his team? This is a guy who is on MARz? Please.
What's going on here is Boston Pack Sports Reporting at its worst. I won't even call it journalism.
Do you feel like they want you to go your separate ways?
"I don't know, that's my idea. That's it, something simple. I don't want to talk to them about contracts right now.
Is that true? didn't he bring up contracts a couple of days ago?
All this crap makes me sick to my stomach.....
Why did he become so unhappy?????
When did he become so unhappy?
What is enough is enough?
I'm very coooonfuuuused
Beautiful statement.
How anyone could think we are a better team - right now, not a future season - without Manny Ramirez than with him, is beyond me.
Boston is not stupid. They're not going to do it. They can say whatever they want. But when it comes to make a deal, they're not going to pull the trigger, because they know what they've got here.
Manny is saying the Sox will not trade him because anything they could get will be suckier than he is. Fair enough. Probably true.
You can say he's burning his bridges here, but I think they are already in cinders.
Do you feel like they want you to go your separate ways?
"I don't know, that's my idea. ... I know they got me, but enough is enough. I'm tired of them, they're tired of me."
and
When you say "enough is enough," what does that mean?
"... You've got to ask Tito and John Henry, they know."
****
Shit. I wanted this guy around a bit longer than 56 games.
One thing the media tends to forget, over and over again, is that this is not a stupid man they are dealing with.
Yes! Yes indeed.
Hmm, I wonder why they think Manny is stupid...
I'll take a guy hitting .500 who is miserable, as opposed to somebody who is passing out bouquets of roses to his teammates and he's hitting .145.
Classic Tito. Love it.
56 more games, I mean. And playoffs.
Why did he become so unhappy?????
When did he become so unhappy?
What is enough is enough?
Haven't you ever been sick to death of how your employer treats you and feel enough is enough? With the shit storm that's swirling around Manny - people all but accusing him of faking an injury to get out of playing important games, of purposely striking out (tantamount to throwing a game!) - can you blame him for feeling this way?!
Baseball Tonight had audio of Manny in English on ESPN Radio.
I am probably more confused right now than I've ever felt about anything else in sports. That's saying something. That also includes RUGBY.
Why can't great players leave the Red Sox without a shitstorm? What is up with that?
Maybe one reason is they still think they are great, when in fact they are not and the FO knows it and is willing to let them go and the players don't like being rejected in the town where they became famous?
I don't know.
I am probably more confused right now than I've ever felt about anything else in sports.
That's why I'm going to watch the game on mute and pray no lawyers bring work in for me. If that happens, it'll be nice and serene. Just baseball.
That's a great question about Sox greats. Let's see (using a generous standard for "great" and "shitstorm," since 1960...)
Williams: No Shitstorm
Conig: Not exactly
Lonborg: Shitstorm
Scott: SS
Reggie Smith: SS
Tiant: SS
Lynn: Yes
Burleson: Yes (SAME SS as Lynn)
Fisk: BIG SS.
Lee: Yes.
Eck: No
Yaz: No.
Hurst: Yes.
Boggs: Yes.
Burks: Yes.
Evans: Teeny SS
Vaughn: Yes
Greenwell: Yes
Clemens: Yes.
Damon: Yes.
Martinez: Yes
Schilling: Not yet.
That's 16 shitstorms of one sort or another and 4 not, though Conigliaro managed to be in the middle of a couple of shitstorms and was traded by surprise later. I can't see a pattern here, except for a lot of very big egos. Some of this was money, some was management, some was players getting in snits (Tiant and Pedro), some was stupidity and greed (Vaughn and Damon), some was racism (Smith), some was arguable player insubordination (Lee, Rice), quite a few were disagreements by the player over whether they were still at top form (Evans, Rice, Greenwell), and others were performance related (Scott and Lonnie, Boggs and Burks).
Manny's closest comparisons would be Williams, who had weathered his difficult period by the time he quit (and who had the advantage of an owner who would tolerate anything from him) and Lee, who wasn't nearly good enough to make management tolerate his non-conventional conduct and utterances.
I have to conclude that this isn't a Boston phenomenon, just something that happened a lot in Boston because it has had a lot of great players.
But a guy like Yaz was retiring (right? my memory of that time is hazy), not a player like Pedro who was going to keep playing and expected a multi-year deal.
That's a real difference.
Did the Yankees have this problem with the FO and now-departed players?
This is ruining my season. STFU and play.
Yaz retired...but it was not written in stone that he was retiring---it could have easily been messy. Same with Williams. I think you have to count these---after all, Evans left in a snit because the Sox wanted him to retire and he didn't.
Let's look at he Orioles...
B. Robinson: No
F. Robinson: Sort of
Ripken: No.
Murray: Yes.
Palmer: No.
Boog: Not really.
Mussina: Not really
Singleton: No.
McNally: No.
Belle: Yes, but he was also injured.
Blair: No.
No doubt about it, the O's have been more placid. They alos have had fewer real stars and personalities. Singleton, Cal, Brooks, Blair, McNally---you couldn't find more easy-going personalities. Palmer, Frank and Belle are more the Boston types.
Maybe the city makes players into characters?
Boston is not stupid, but it was not the nicest or smartest move by the Red Sox brain trust to give the CHB enough off-the-record quotes for him to write "The manager and the owners have had enough."
It's your typical labor-management situation, lots of blustering by both sides, but as Manny well knows, they're stuck with each other until the end of the year, because there's no replacing Manny.
Me, I'm with Manny on this one. There's no replacing Manny. They may not pick up his option at the end of the year but he's here for the duration of '08.
but it was not the nicest or smartest move by the Red Sox brain trust to give the CHB enough off-the-record quotes for him to write "The manager and the owners have had enough."
CHB does not need even one off-the-record quote. He'll write that just because he wants to.
He'll say that if the team denies it, they are lying and covering up for Manny. Plus, any type of FO comment just gives the issue more publicity, so they generally let it slide.
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