Good. I did not want to spend any of my summer evenings rooting for that asshole.
I'm going on record right here: 2007 is the year FBfO goes into a serious decline. Serious.
Edit: 28 Million?!!? ESPN says that annual sum will be pro-rated, so the TCM will pocket about $18 million.
When he left ...
I'm sure New York will forgive him.
61 comments:
I don't get it. How can we root for people like Julio Lugo, but not for someone who can actually make a difference? We do want to win, right?
Instead of having a replacement-level player, the Yankees now have a player who hasn't had a 3+ ERA in 3 years. Even if it was in AAAA, that's a great freaking player.
This is seriously troubling.
What an a**ho*e.
AN dyes, this makes the yanks so much better. What an a**hole!
I had an irrational (in that I had no evidence) fear that Clemens would suck if he wound up in Boston because I don't think he'll be able to handle deep AL batting orders. I'm glad he hasn't and will gladly convert that fear to a fervent hope.
Thank goodness. This is a big relief.
I've been predicting Clemens's demise for so many years. It's just got to happen one day!
Plus thank goodness I can comment again. It was getting really annoying.
Laura points out that New York is not in last place. The Blue Jays are.
Whatever. My point stands.
I will not root for that jerk. Ever. Plain and simple. (There are players who, if they came to Boston, other fans would be similar disgusted, but I'd be happy.) That's simply the way it is.
The Blue Jays are.
Oo, this week is gonna be fun. :)
i-girl said...Plus thank goodness I can comment again. It was getting really annoying.
Annoying me too, I had to manually type the link into the system, kept on saying my request looked like a virus (even ran virus just to make sure grrrr).
the Yankees now have a player who hasn't had a 3+ ERA in 3 years. Even if it was in AAAA, that's a great freaking player.
2003 - 2.83
2004 - 2.90
2005 - 2.30
2006 - 2.13
There's FOUR straight years of a sub-3.00 ERA.
Daisuke Matsuzaka in Japan. "A great freaking player".
Annoying me too, I had to manually type the link into the system, kept on saying my request looked like a virus (even ran virus just to make sure grrrr).
No virus, it was a Google/Blogger problem. That's L-girl, by the way. Looks weird in lower case.
Sean, you're asking me how I can't root for a guy who rubbed/kissed the Babe Ruth bust before every game he pitched with the Yanks? You're seriously asking that?
L-girl, my bad. Got new fingers today :).
Papel-bot for the ninth? Better be!
Bot.
Espn is reporting Clemens signed for 28 mil. No way the Sox would have matched that. Dave Pinto at Baseball Musings says first game would probably be at Fenway!
No prob, S-won-see. :)
I am amazed that any Red Sox fan could even consider cheering for Clemens at this point.
Also, I am looking forward to a reply to Allan's recent comment re Dice-K's ERA. I'm pretty sure Japanese baseball is above AAAA level.
28 fuckin' million? suckers.
K and a 6-3 for the Bot. 1 to go.
28 million. man, do i want that fucker to go down in flames now.
28 million is more than half of what we are paying dice for SIX YEARS.
fat billy will get that for 4 months of work, at best (assuming a few minor league starts).
Am I allowed to say "Roger Clemens sucks donkey schlong?"
And a soft liner to third.
We win.
20-10.
allowed?
it is explicitly encouraged.
allowed?
it is explicitly encouraged.
A co-worker of mine once asked if Allan still liked Pedro Martinez, "even after that incident with Don Zimmer".
I said before that incident he merely loved Pedro. After, he wanted to marry him.
Is it allowed indeed.
FB: "Let's face it -- these guys know how to win."
Oh, do they?
... not as well as they know how to lose, judging from April.
NY is still 5.5 GB, but they are now in second place. (Bal and TB 6.5 and Tor 7.5.)
Time to change my headline.
This post could use a glossary. Does everyone know what FBfO and TCM mean?
Would I rather pay a pro-rated 28m for Clemens, 2nd best pitcher in history, or $103 to get stuck with Matsuzaka for 5 years? I'm not so sure.
All I'm saying is, Clemens rubs/kisses the babe ruth bust before a start, while *someone* smashed Mabely Lugo's face into a car windshield. Obviously, one of these things is worse.
Clemens is a jerk, but he's an incredible ballplayer. I'm hoping those who are happy to not have a jerk on the team feel similarly about Lugo and Wil Cordero.
ridiculous ammount of money. it's embarrassing.
also, yeah, 'these guys know how to win' is dumb. if winning = playing 4-something ball for the past month then yes! i agree witchoo fatty ;p
WHO'S IN FIRST PLACE KTHXBAI
psht he's so goin down too. the al east says 'oh hay roger, i'm ready to downgradez yr era'z now!' ;D
Clemens is a jerk, but he's an incredible ballplayer.
I agree. But he annoys and angers me to the point where I do not want him on my team.
Seeing him get hurt in the first inning of his first start and ending his season after about 4 pitches in would be enjoyable, I'd much rather see him lug around a 6.00 ERA with the MFY forced to send him out every five days for his weekly thrashing. Humiliation! Constant humiliation!
(I have an idea: let's give "truth serum" to every player, ask them all sorts of questions about their personal lives, and then base our front office decisions on who gives the proper answers.)
Clemens is a jerk, but he's an incredible ballplayer.
Has he been downgraded from the best pitcher in baseball? Or would you like to back up that earlier statement with a fact or two?
Hahahahahahaha. I cannot wait for the AL to give this moneygrubbing [censored for sensitive readers] multiple thorough shellackings. Or maybe for his arm fall off sometime in mid-September. Or both, if the gods are feeling generous.
I had started to come around on Roger a teeeeny bit in recent years, to the point where I felt okay with the prospect of him going into the Hall with a B on his hat. Now I really, really can't imagine his cap with anything but a big old dollar sign on it. I know that's not an original sentiment, but I mean it.
By the way, I don't care if the players on my team are jerks or not. Odds are, some are and some aren't. Put 25 guys together, you're gonna get some great guys and some a-holes.
And I don't hate Roger Clemens. I have no reason to. Prior to Pedro, he was the best pitcher the Red Sox ever had, and I think he was treated shabbily by management, and later, by fans. He helped my old team, too, and he was very entertaining. (I was at the bat-throwing game.)
But Clemens as presently constituted is monumentally over-rated. I think he'll do the Yankees more harm than good and I'm glad the Sox didn't waste one penny on him.
ooh, rhyming with witchy, the things being said. As for Daisuke vs Clemens? hmm, 26 yo in first year of six vs 44 yo who has become basically a 5 or 6 inning pitcher, I take the youth in this case.
BTW - Clemens vs Sox is 8 and 5 with a 3.85 era, (5-0 in fenway). As for being a big game pitcher? 12-8, with a 3.66 ERA.
Schilling is 7-2 with a 2.06
Beckett is 2-2 with a 2.11
Hmm, two pitchers just as good or better in post season.
The question is does Theo pull a trade for Helton? I say if they will take combination of Lowell, Hanson, Tavarez and Wily Mo then go for it.
In looking at my posts when Clemens "unretired" and signed with Houston (January 2004), I ran across these two quotes from SoSHers. I like them so much I'll post them here too:
Pumpsie: "Let us review ... for posterity's sake. Roger played for the Red Sox and now most Red Sox fans hate him with a passion as the Texas Con Man. Roger played for the Blue Jays and now most Blue Jay fans hate him with a passion a money-grubbing, backdoor deal-making liar. Roger played for the Yankees, and now most Yankee fans will hate him with a passion as a fake and phony. ... Clemens is a pathological liar and a bully. He always lies. He's lied his entire career. He lied when he said he wanted to remain a member of the Red Sox, wouldn't sign with an AL East team and wanted to be closer to his family ... He lied when he signed his Toronto contract, the one with the illegal side agreement "escape clause." He lied shamefacedly when he said that he didn't throw at Mike Piazza or that he thought, the second time around, that the broken bat was a ball ... He lied when he allowed Yankee fans, and all the fans he played before last year to go on believing that that was his last year, phony standing ovation after phony standing ovation."
The Gray Eagle: "You can always rely on Fat Billy from Ohio to make a chump out of anyone who gives him a standing ovation. Sox fans who stood and applauded him for beating their team in a pennant race, because he was "retiring"? Chumps. Yankee fans who stood and applauded him after he was knocked out of the box by their hated rivals in Game 7 of the ALCS? Chumps. ... Applaud this fraud at your own risk. When he makes chumps out of you, you will have no one to blame but yourselves."
at the very least it's going to be fun taunting him again when he's on the mound.
yeah, he's a phony. but fuck, aren't they all? they are all pwned by the dollar. look at little twit johnny.
he's a phony. but fuck, aren't they all?
no. keith foulke retired instead of dragging things out in camp and being able to pocket $6 million from cleveland. he signed the deal, but i believe he retired before they had to pay him anything.
wakefield and ortiz have signed (or been extended) in boston for less than they could have made elsewhere.
i suppose. but keith foulke isn't roger clemens.
true about ortiz and wake tho. this reminds me of some corny song or something?
it just seems that more often than not, it's about the dollars. meh w/e. i'm already antsy for the toronto series. fuck this shit. lol ;//
if all you want to do is play ball, and two teams offer you different amounts, with all things being equal, why not take the one with more $$?
i would.
it just seems that more often than not, it's about the dollars.
That's the world we live in - all of us. Most of us would like to earn more money for doing the same work. Most of us would work for the company that paid us the most, not another company that offered us less.
Ballplayers are no different than anyone else in that respect - except that they give us the great game of baseball. People in the entertainment biz earn way more money for crap products that contribute nothing.
i prolly would too. unless i had a loyal fan base, the difference in money was basically the difference between buying that villa in the south of france or a flat in north london, and i swore never to go to the team that is my team's arch-rival. but all other times i would go fer shure.
I think Roger has a good idea of whether or not he can come back and be pretty good. If he didn't think he could, he wouldn't bother. But I do see him being a half-step behind where he has been in the last couple of years, and between that and coming to the AL, he'll be in the 3.5 - 4 ERA range for the year.
There's nothing wrong with that if you pitch every time and bring significant intangibles (i.e., hope) with you. The Yankees don't need lights-out pitching; they need decent, reliable pitching, which is why Zito would have been good for them.
So Clemens is going to be a plus for New York, unless he gets injured. It's just a question of how big a plus. It doesn't exactly terrify me. Even if he's effective, he's only one pitcher. Moose could still break down and Wang have his off days and Petite could yet go down with an injury.
I admit that it puts a damper on my dreams of the Yankees not making the playoffs at all, but we can still beat them if we stay healthy.
I'm on the fence about Helton. Of course, it's not just a matter of improving the offense by "adding Helton" -- you only get the difference between Helton and whoever he replaces. If the trade configuration is still the same, that means Lowell. And even with Todd's current .390, the difference isn't huge. Power's about the same. You figure Helton will hit .320 for the year, Lowell will hit .280, similar power numbers. Sure, it's an improvement in the short term, but not a massive one. Although there is his OBP and run-scoring advantage to think of. Hitting 2nd in front of Papi-Manny...that's a lot of runs. (Helton's OBP at the moment is .527 -- that's an OPS of 1.067 with the help of only two HRs.)
Then there's the next five years to think about. I'm sure Helton will hang in there, but five years leave a lot of room for regret when a guy's going to be 39 at the end of it.
Zen, all very good points.......The yankees are better today then they were yesterday.
Clemens said in his press conference that his big reasons for coming back were, Mr. Torre and Jetes and all the friends he still has on this team.......He also added during the game broadcast that there was one main reason he came back to New York and he will say at the end of the year what it was.......My guess is that it had something to Steinbrenner......
It will be interesting to see how Theo reacts to this move.......Not that he has to do someting....but you have to imagine he will..
I also think someone in the starting 9 will go before the trading deadline, and also one of our young stud pitchers..Just to add a bat whether It happens or not who knows.......
I can see them adding Tori Hunter or Helton.......So I would assume that would leave Crisp, Lowell, Youklis and Pena all vulnerable...
I think we need another bat..
And Sean this is for you:
(Taken from espn.com)
"I was very upset, confused,'' Mabely Lugo said of an April 30 argument she had with her husband at Minute Maid Park. "He wasn't at fault
This from the sporting news:
She testified she exaggerated the story and he didn't mean to hurt her during an April 30 argument at Minute Maid Park.
Mabely Lugo let out a big sigh and smiled when the jury returned the verdict after deliberating for 35 minutes. Lugo's mother, Rhina Lugo, hugged her son's wife as she began crying.
But sean if you were there I am sorry for in advance for assuming you just read all that stuff about him and assumed he was guilty....
Like most people do when it concerns athletes and people in the public eye.
I am not saying he did or didn't do it I just know that a jury of six aguitted him........
But if you want to run with all year so be it...........Have fun!!
Another contest: When will he first go on IR, or how many days will he be on it?
Clemens said in his press conference that his big reasons for coming back were, Mr. Torre and Jetes and all the friends he still has on this team...
But you don't believe that, do you? You can't believe a word of that man's mouth.
Jetes. Yeah.
***
Re Lugo, for a domestic violence case to even make it to court, it has to meet a very high standard or no prosecution will touch it. Many abused women can't go through with it and end up recanting. One doesn't have to have been there. One need only know something about abusive relationships and the legal system to be fairly certain of how this went down.
As for a jury's acquittal, I have two words: O J.
This is gonna kill their bullpen.
Zenslinger said...
Although there is his OBP and run-scoring advantage to think of. Hitting 2nd in front of Papi-Manny...that's a lot of runs. (Helton's OBP at the moment is .527 -- that's an OPS of 1.067 with the help of only two HRs.)
If you have a line up of Youkilis, Helton, Ortiz, Manny, Drew, Tek, Lugo, Crisp, Pedroia. I think it would be explosive. The first 5 would provide OBP, Power, RBI's in bunches. Plus you get a gold glove at first.
The bottom three would be able to play small ball, etc. If you are committed to Lugo leading off then you have Youkilis batting sixth, Tek, Crisp and Pedroia. My concern is you have just under 1/4 of the games being less than 3 runs and the sox are 1-6 in those games. If you go to 4 runs counting today, the sox are 4 and 4. Half of the games they score 4 or less runs.
The offense needs to get in gear! Pitching wins games, but at least 1/3 of the time you are not going to get good pitching.
And FB will still be able to fly home when he's not starting, skip short road trips if he's not scheduled, etc. (way to support your teammates, Rog!).
Sounds like the behaviour of a .... DIVA!
Cakey makes an excellent point. He can't go more than 5 innings. Proctor's arm should fall off by the break.
Cakey makes an excellent point. He can't go more than 5 innings. Proctor's arm should fall off by the break.
In 19 starts last year:
Less than 5 innings: 0
5 innings: 6 times (3 of those in September (tired?))
6 or 6.1 innings: 7 times
7 innings: 5 times
More than 7: 0
He threw more than 100 pitches in only 9 of 19 starts.
He's another year older -- turns 45 on August 4 -- but he was more than a 5-inning pitcher in the NL last year. The AL will tax him a bit more.
(We said that about Proctor last year.)
OK, I exaggerated about Clemens's IP. Stupid numbers. :)
(So has it happened yet?)
No, he still has two arms!!
Helton: I wrote a little about him in late January. His production has dropped each of the last 4 years, but is still decent.
$: $16.6 in each of 2007-08-09-10, $19.1 in 2011 and either $23 or a $4.6 buyout in 2012.
Bad contract!
I agree about the contract, but if Colorado picks up 1/3 would prefer 1/2. Then I think it would be a good addition. Plus this year he has made a good comeback.
Splits show .344 /.459 /.508 away games. .375/.524/.375 2 outs risp. .476/.667/.571 Late and close this year. Those are very good numbers and better than his career numbers.
Lowell doesn't even approach these numbers (except in slugging).
If I did my calculations right and with no rainouts or anything....
If Clemens makes his debut June 3rd vs. Schilling at Fenway 8:05 Sunday night on ESPN.....
It makes for great television......
Sean, you are such a comedian.
Either that, or you are such a fool. You decide.
I love being personally attacked. I wish you were still a Yankee fan.
Sean: Re: Lugo vs Clemens. The difference is, it's not like all of us who didn't want Roger all specifically wanted Lugo to come to the Sox back when he was on the D-Rays. But we don't decide who comes to the team. When I heard we got Lugo, I thought, Oh, now we've got this guy who once hit his wife, that's shitty. I even recently posted a pic I took of him on my blog, and titled it "enddomesticviolence.jpg".
But this, to me, is all about "baseball" asshole-ness. You know what I mean? Lugo and lots of other guys may have done shitty things, but regardless of all of it, I'm rooting for the Sox to win. So, yes, I would've had to root for Roger if he'd come to us. But he's worse than Lugo, baseball-wise. Being on the Sox and then going to the Yanks, having the nerve to only pitch when it's convenient for you, not going on road trips, etc., is the "wife-beating" of baseball.
Just trying to explain it the way I see it.
I love being personally attacked.
This is a personal attack? Yeesh.
But this, to me, is all about "baseball" asshole-ness.
Jere, that's a great way to put it.
As I said, I don't hate Clemens the way you and Allan do, but this perfectly explains the difference between two very different issues.
So, what's the over/under on Clemens getting injured?
Will he end up getting hit by a pitch in his first game or will he last more than five?
personally attacked
You said he was either "such a comedian" or "such a fool".
Now ... is that worse than wishing someone was still a Yankees fan?
We need a ruling.
(Sean is entitled to believe William is the best pitcher in baseball. I don't think the facts show that -- he wouldn't be the first arm I'd chose to build a team around -- plus I'd like to read his argument, but it's an opinion. ... Oh, did I mention that Dice had four straight ERAs below 3.00 before coming to Boston, making him a super great freaking pitcher?)
Irony, oh irony.....
"I still have people that I don't want to let down. Cash, Mr. Steinbrenner ... I don't want to let the people down," Clemens told reporters in New York. "It's my nature. It's the way I've been brought up."
This might actually be a good thing for the Red Sox. I'm actually looking forward to his first outing a Fenway. This could fuel the fire between these two teams again. They seem to be playing to "nice" lately. Hope this heat's things up a bit. I know it will fan wise at least. Funny, I was saying to my wife "we don't need him" right before Schilling came on and said the same thing. I'd gladly keep our rotation just the way it is and not have this ridiculous distraction.
You said he was either "such a comedian" or "such a fool".
Now ... is that worse than wishing someone was still a Yankees fan?
We need a ruling.
OK, I'll rule. :)
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