In recent weeks, I have posted often about the mounting legal woes of a certain hefty gentlemen who hails from the Buckeye State.As you can tell, I'm enjoying his public implosion immensely (pun intended), but since he's no longer a member of the Red Sox (or even the Chokers), perhaps you don't care that much.
Unlike a magazine or newspaper, a blog is not constrained by a finite number of pages, so any time I post about Fat Billy, it doesn't mean there will be any less Red Sox coverage.
My questions to you: Do you have an opinion on this? Do you relish each new allegation or do you merely tolerate it? Does it annoy you? Should I relegate the posts to a Fat Billy-only blog?
54 comments:
As my favorite nanny once said, "Bring it on!" I'm loving every minute of this, and happy to see daily reports about it here!
Keep it coming. The more dumping on Fat Billy the better.
First off, it is your blog. You can talk about anything you want, and if anyone doesn't want to read a post, then they won't read it.
My take on the whole Clemens thing is the same feeling I have watching an accident---you don't want to watch, but somehow it is just so hard to turn away. I remember Clemens as the big shot on the Sox and hated him for going to the Yankees. Part of me really enjoys watching his downfall, and the other part feels a sense of deep sadness that yet another "hero of the game" has proven to be a fake.
I am also interested in the political and legal aspects of this, yet I have no desire to read every bit of the evidence. I believe Roger lied and is still lying. I am less interested in all the details.
So I do not share your level of "obsession," but I am interested enough to read what you post.
Just one loyal reader's thoughts.
Let's put it this way - every time I see a clemens post I say, "Dammit, not again. I wanna read about the Sox!"....but I will click and read anyway. I am annoyed by it, and I'm just sick of hearing about it. I wish it would end because I really don't give a shit about him. I hate him and I know no matter what happens, good ol' amnesia will set in and most people will forget about it so it won't matter in a few years.
Basically what Amy already said. Except that I couldn't care less about the legal/political ramifications of it. It is your blog and you can post whatever you want, it is primarily a Red Sox blog, but you do focus on big baseball news when it is big. I personally think the posts are a tad much, and feel it only warrants an update when something big happens, not his every move. But, fuck it. I'm not going to be like one of those idiots that voluntarily reads something then says they're offended by it - if you don't like it, don't read it!
I really don't want to read it, but I feel like if I don't, I'll miss something important. lol.
/rant
It's good filler until the seasons starts...Until opening day when the discussions about Lugo and Drew and Tito's moves take center stage.........
I am quite amazed you actually asked for input on this topic, even though your infatution with Fat Man's downfall is greatly documented, it is still noteworthy in some way.......I wish he would just go away.......I know i beat a dead horse with this one but I still would like to see the comments not approved ..and just let them flow.....
Jere said...
As my favorite nanny once said, "Bring it on!"
That's a story for another day....:)
I think your interest in Fat Billy is only rivaled in Jere's mission to let the world know about the original Office.....:)
What Amy said.
I love it. It saves me the time of looking for it.
Defintely, pour it on, my friend! I love your updates on "Fat Billy." Like yourself, I'm enjoying watching The Carpetbagger get his just desserts. I am having a blast writing about it on my blog, too. Serves him right for acting like a jackass all these years.
off-topic here, hopin' that jere sees it...
re: the blue jays post on your internet web blog last week...
this may have been what the post was referring to, but my dad went down to the US mailbox to pick up our mail...and along with the sox tickets that were there, i also received a letter from the Jays...with advertisements printed on the ticket paper, for exclusive seats to the red sox games at skydome, in a nice envelope with the jays schedule for the year and some guys business card!
thought it was interestin....
I couldn't care less about steroids or Clemens or anything related to either of those. I never read the Roger-related posts, I only read the comments.
BUT it's totally your blog and totally your call and totally within my power to skip anything I don't want to read.
You should do exactly what you want and nothing else.
Uh... on your blog, that is. ;-)
I think your interest in Fat Billy is only rivaled in Jere's mission to let the world know about the original Office.....:)
But I have yet to reach the level of obsession that Jere has with NESN's not-quite-complete-New-England coverage. I'll never top that!
...
Laura and I were talking about this while making dinner tonight so I thought I'd post about it. She thinks I'm nuts -- she doesn't possess that key Red Sox fan gene that can summon and sustain the purest loathing towards a MFY (or a Sock!) -- so you 'll rarely see her comments on Fathead.
So no one wants to click on fatbillyisgoingtojail.blogspot.com?
I hope if people are sick of it, they'll say so. I'm not going to argue with anyone; I'm hoping for honest feedback.
...
On another note, any ideas for the W-L contest prize this year? I'm stumped.
I like this:
I'm not going to be like one of those idiots that voluntarily reads something then says they're offended by it
Tim, I might put this on my sidebar. It's just too perfect.
I really don't want to read it, but I feel like if I don't, I'll miss something important. lol.
That, I understand. Why am I reading this stuff...? ... Because I have to be in the loop... Who cares about the loop... I guess I do. And why am I reading this stuff... and around and around it goes...
She thinks I'm nuts -- she doesn't possess that key Red Sox fan gene that can summon and sustain the purest loathing towards a MFY (or a Sock!)
That's not why I think you're nuts. :)
You should do exactly what you want and nothing else.
OH BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!
...
...
Uh... on your blog, that is. ;-)
damn it.
Tim, I might put this on my sidebar. It's just too perfect.
Heh, go for it! I'm so sick of people like that. You don't like it? Don't read/watch/listen to it!
That, I understand. Why am I reading this stuff...? ... Because I have to be in the loop... Who cares about the loop... I guess I do. And why am I reading this stuff... and around and around it goes...
That, my friend, is also very true.
Because I have to be in the loop...
Say you miss a nickname coinage -- just think how silly you'll feel during a game thread ... or slinking off to the Glossary between innings ... the shame!!
First, I don't get a vote, because although I'm a frequent reader I only comment when I reach an alcohol intake level that renders my comments incoherent.
The beer has been good to me this evening so I'll wade in.
Just as being a Sox fan is about a lot more than baseball, the Fat Billy (or is it fatbilly?) scandal is about the big issues in life: lying, cheating, politics, hypocrisy (oh, I guess that's redundant. I already mentioned politics), an inconceiveably large ego (he really thought he was the smartest guy in the room while channeling Jethro Bodine in front of Congress and the world), and, of course, breast implants.
Keep covering it.
And I really enjoy the blog. Thanks.
Say you miss a nickname coinage -- just think how silly you'll feel during a game thread ... or slinking off to the Glossary between innings ... the shame!!
I so did that when I was a JoS n00b... i knew CI was jeter....but unsure whether it was CI or capital C, lowercase L....when one fateful day i posted a comment regarding that MFY, "CL" - after I did that, i think it clicked in/i read it somewhere/i googled it with a JoS specific search and realized how much of an ass i'd made of myself....never again, i said!
THE TOP 12 REASONS I'M GLAD TO READ YOUR BILE ON FB...
12. Clemens got Mike Wallace, a friend too old to know when he was being exploited, to stain his reputation with a biased, soft-ball interview to serve Roger's PR initiative.
11. The obscene half-season auction he pulled the last two years, the most obnoxious mercenary act by a professional athlete ever.
10. That disgraceful phone call taping stunt, on the pretense of offering support to Brian McNamee's sick son.
9. He was willing to say his wife used HGH, but didn't have the guts to admit his own use.
8. He didn't pitch worth a damn in the post-season until he joined the Yankees.
7. He told the Globe that his mission in life was to end his career with the Red Sox, "like Williams and Yaz," and to be there when the Sox finally won the Series ("That will be something!")...then left for Toronto.
6. He said that if he didn't sign with the Red Sox, he would only sign with Texas or Houston, because his family was his firts priority---then signed with Toronto.
5. He was an out-of-shape .500 pitcher for his 4 year contract with the Red Sox, and still insisted on being the highest paid pitcher in baseball.
4. He did a grand tour when he "retired" the first time, accepting a car and other expensive gifts, and immediately unretired without giving them back.
3. He couldn't finish Game 6 in 1986, leaving his team to the mercy of Johnny Mac dull brain, Calvin Schiraldi's rookie nerves, and Rich Gedman's immobile thighs..
2. He's friends with Jose Canseco, George H.W. Bush,and Kevin Kennedy.
1. He's a lying, cheating, dim-witted, arrogant, money-grubbing, disloyal, bullying creep.
You can't bash FB too much for me, Red Sock.
First, I don't get a vote, because although I'm a frequent reader I only comment when I reach an alcohol intake level that renders my comments incoherent.
lol...been there done that on here! (playoffs)...haha, im near that point but heading out for some cheap (good) pints now, so i'll opine on that one when i get back!
I never post here, but I do visit frequently. I have to say that I am still interested enough in the Clemens stuff to read most of the posts on it.
However, the evil pleasure I get out of this whole circus has diminished greatly. I think the pleasure drop-off occurred on the day I realized that my loathing and hate of the scumbag weasels we call our Congress far exceeds my hate of Roger Clemens, who at the end of the day is merely a weenie.
What jack marshall said.
I am enjoying the piling onto the loathesome Mr. Clemeroid.
Say you miss a nickname coinage -- just think how silly you'll feel during a game thread ... or slinking off to the Glossary between innings ... the shame!!
There's a reason many of us catch up on game threads the next morning!
I only comment when I reach an alcohol intake level that renders my comments incoherent.
Clearly a natural gamethreader. Please feel free to join us when the fun begins.
As long as it doesn't detract from sox and mfy-schadenfreude blogging, it's all good.
"First off, it is your blog. You can talk about anything you want, and if anyone doesn't want to read a post, then they won't read it."
Amy hits it spot on.
His Lordship is not privy to such vast swathes of reading matter on this subject and welcomes JoS updates on any matters of interest.
I have my own blog and I write it for myself, because I enjoy it. If others like it, nice one!
In the words of Fat Billy, when it comes to Game thread comments, "I'll see y'all soon". I still tip my hat to nixon33 for Chocolate Rain - one of my moments of the year.
Keep up the good work people!
Redsock: I neglected to mention that it really is admirable that you have the consideration to inquire of your on-line community's preferences regarding content. "It's mine and I can do what I want" is certainly the predominant sentiment around the Blogosphere, but it is a narrow and ungenerous perspective. You obviously understand that you have regular visitors here who develop a level of trust and reliance on JOS to help them enjoy the baseball season, and that this, like it or not, creates a responsibility.
Your question shows you care about the little people out here in Methuen, Athol, Belmont, Marblehead, and Taiwan who look to you for their daily Sox fix.
We appreciate it. Thanks.
I love it.
I also love the shade-and-frude series.
Quote from NY Post, through Wa-Po
"Roger Clemens' life has officially gone from ERA and RBI to DNA and the FBI."
Your obsession is my obsession !
Keep it on Redsock !
I enjoy it, especially given his arrogance at "what [he] did for baseball." Sadly, I'm repeating a point callahan made on WEEI this morning, but it irked me when I heard him say that.
"What I've done for baseball"...the ultimate "The King Can Do No Wrong" argument. Insideous and undemocratic as hell---it argues that your accountability for wrong doing is proportional to your "value" to society. And lots of people buy it---that's why guys like Rocket keep saying it. Just one more way sports chatter seeps into the brain and destroys the soul. Yeah, Roger, and just think: if you had FOUR hundred wins, you'd get a free bank robbery! Ass-hole.
"leaving his team to the mercy of Johnny Mac dull brain, Calvin Schiraldi's rookie nerves, and Rich Gedman's immobile thighs.."
Have we all got so used to blaming everyone but Buckner that he's now not getting ANY of the blame.... Look, everybody helped the team get that far that year, and a bunch did individual things in that game that costs us the series, basically. Can't we just leave it at that?
Okay, now all four of my obsessions has been brought up in this thread: Hating Clemens, NESN excludes Fairfield County, the original, British Office, is better, although the American is okay, too, and finally, defending Rich Gedman.
Good night, everybody!
There actually is something that interests me about this story, but it's more like a historical or literary perspective. Or something, I can't quite categorize it.
The former hero being exposed as a cheat - the very talented person who over-reached, because he couldn't live with the decline of his own talents, and sowed the seeds of his own demise - the spectacular fall from grace (the higher they come, the harder they fall)...
These are classic themes, repeated throughout history. Countless books, movies, plays and epic poems have been written on them.
I feel no personal stake in the Clemens's desmise (either sadness or glee), but on some level, it is a fascinating story.
Jack's note about "the king can do no wrong" is part of that, too.
My $0.02 worth is that even bad guys can be good for baseball. By all accounts, he's not a great guy but we can't deny his accomplishments are unreal. I am not a fan of his but I SO want him to be innocent simply because of what it could do to the collective faith in baseball. Interesting note is that one of the years he won the Cy Young (coincidentally a year that he is alleged to be using), Pedro came in 2nd.
To answer the question, I say keep posting on him as long as it doesn't cut into posts about the Sox. But it IS, after all your blog.
Jeff
Off-topic, I know, but I DON'T blame Buckner, not one bit. Rich Gedman was immobile, a slug: Doug Mirabelli would have stuck Stanley's pitch in his hip pocket. And Steamer should have been brought in to close the game from the start: he was unhittable in that Series, and Calvin looked like a deer in the headlights the whole post-season. And if Roger had a pair, he would have been in to relieve Hurst in Game 7, not Al (Why Am I Here?) Nipper. MacNamara? He's standing neck deep in a ring of flaming John Kruk-droppings in my Sox Managers Hell, along with Grady, Zimmer,and Eddie Kasko....
I am not a fan of his but I SO want him to be innocent simply because of what it could do to the collective faith in baseball.
And you don't think that's done already? There are people who still imagine baseball is somehow shielded from the issues that affect every other aspect of society?
We've been hearing about hitters using steroids for years and years, including the greatest hitter of our time. But *now* the "collective faith" in baseball will be shaken, because of Clemens?
No, not "now" and certainly not "because" of Clemens. It just would be (is?) another blow that is hard to take.
Except for, of course the possibility that Pedro could earn another Cy out of this - that would be a nice twist.
Jeff
Pretty sure the blow's already been taken at this point.
It's news, Clemens is a prominent former Sock -- it belongs on the blog in the eyes this reader and community member.
I don't care to rehash the 1986 WS, but I do want to look back to that summer. A big baseball fan as a child, I only became interested again as a teenager in 1986 because of the excitement of the Red Sox run. I watched whole games again for the first time in four or five years. And a lot of that was due to Roger's awesome performance that summer -- I think of myself as a typcial fan in this regard.
As a fan, I try to insulate myself from players' statements and expressions of egotism, so if Clemens said one thing and did another when he left the Red Sox, I didn't concentrate so much on that. I felt more anger at the Sox organization when Clemens did so well in Toronto. Perhaps not anger; maybe a certain vindication that they made a mistake. I always like to see former Sox do well.
Today -- Jack Marshall's 12 points are all very well taken -- I'm at the point at which Clemens's assholity has poked through that insulation. I certainly believe he's lying and want to see justice served. But I don't get an ounce of pleasure out of it and have some trouble understanding why some of you do. I would not say this guy was ever really my hero -- I love baseball but don't particularly find even extraordinary performance in to be heroic. But he did, almost singlehandedly, bring me back into the game. Why would I feel happy about his self-inflicted fall? It's tragic. At this point I want him to get nailed the way I want to see MacBeth go down -- the tragic inevitability of it. But it doesn't cause me any joy. He was the best, and that's been lost.
My enjoyment of the game is intact as is my insulation against player remarks and personalities (Wakefield loves Bush? let me stick my fingers back in my ears...) But another figure that rubbed through that insulation over the years that I feel the same way towards is Barry Bonds. And I can't help but ask you, Allan, why it is you can wish FB's ruin so implacably while defending Bonds? Not to conflate your point of view with hers, but didn't Bonds do as l-girl said Clemens did: over-reach, be unable to face his decline?
Perhaps you think the Asshole Quotient isn't there in Bonds's case. I do; I hoped he gets nailed to the wall as well.
Like anyone who's played for the Sox, he will always be interesting to Boston fans. Given his outsized accomplishments and undersized character, he generates more interest than average.
But I don't get an ounce of pleasure out of it and have some trouble understanding why some of you do.
I can never get an answer to this. I look forward to reading what others have to say to Zen's comment.
I love baseball but don't particularly find even extraordinary performance in to be heroic.
I was saying this at home the other day. I don't get the whole "sports hero" thing. Unless we're using the word hero in a very devalued way - any person who we like or whose actions bring us joy?
I tremendously admire great sports performances, but I never understand why they are called heroic. My idea of what makes a hero is very different.
outsized accomplishments and undersized character
Well said!!
why it is you can wish FB's ruin so implacably while defending Bonds?
I don't hate Bonds. I've had nothing but pure hate and disgust for Clemens for more than a decade.
That's pretty much it.
I'd rather players didn't cheat in sports, but they do. They always have and they always will. Hoping for sports without cheating is like hoping for human perfection. It simply isn't possible.
So Bonds cheated and lied? Okay, he did. Next.
I may make fun of Giambi, but I don't care much about him and his drug use either.
Roger is a special case. If he had admitted his use right away, I'd have roasted him a bit, but then moved on as he faded away. If he was out of the news, I'd likely never mention him.
But the dumbass thinks he can get away with it -- and watching him stumble and fail at every single turn is pure joy.
Roger is a special case. If he had admitted his use right away, I'd have roasted him a bit, but then moved on as he faded away. If he was out of the news, I'd likely never mention him.
Actually, I would have roasted him A LOT, gloating at the headlines and back pages. But once they stopped, I imagine my party would have stopped too. And life would have gone on.
Z-I knew Clemens would be named in the Mitchell Report...I was sure of it. Even so, it felt like a blow to the gut. The fact that he, his legacy and his accomplishments are stained by all this gives me no pleasure at all.It's terrible for baseball, sports, fans, kids, and my digestion. I hate drugs, and I hate to see baseball infected with the likes of Brian MacNamee so the likes of Roger Clemens can keep auctioning himself for millions until he's 45.
But it would not have given me more pleasure if he got away with everything while Barry Bonds was being (rightly) pilloried. Clemens has earned this ordeal, and it is just that he have to endure it. Justice, even imperfect, incomplete, flawed justice, doesn't make me happy, exactly---Carlton Fisk jumping up and down as the ball hits the pole makes me happy. But it makes me hopeful.
Jack Marshall said...
I hate drugs, and I hate to see baseball infected with the likes of Brian MacNamee so the likes of Roger Clemens can keep auctioning himself for millions until he's 45.
Wow, you make Macnamme sound like pusher selling pot down by the schoolyard...I'm not sure it was ever his intention to get these clowns to do these things......
He was asked by his wealthy employers to obtain drugs and shoot them up...And if he didn't do it someone else would have....
9casey: Did you READ the Mitchell report? Guys like McNamee hung out around AIDs clinics and bought HGH from desperately sick people. They are infinitely worse than pot-pushers by any yardstick. And please---don't brandish that "if they hadn't done it, someone else would have" rationalization---they tried that at the Nuremberg Trials too, you know. McNamee is accountable for his own actions. Someone else would have broken the law for cash if he hadn't? How does that make him less of a slime-ball? What's the theory---your illegal conduct makes you less of a slimeball in direct proportion to the number of RESERVE slimeballs lurking in the shadows? By that logic, you should step into the shoes of any crook making money in an extensive criminal network---after all, if you don't do it, someone else will.
Come on.That kind of thinking is bad for you and everyone else.
He was asked by his wealthy employers to obtain drugs and shoot them up
Not unlike how the players' even wealthier employers (and their union) looked the other way while they were all shooting up, since the results were so beneficial to the game, that is, profitable.
Bring it on!
The more news about the Texas Conman the better.
And, as Jack Marshall said, thanks for asking. That makes up for some of your insane political statements. :)
it really is admirable that you have the consideration to inquire of your on-line community's preferences regarding content
I don't understand how asking a question of people I converse with on a near-daily basis is deserving of admiration, but whatever. ... Plus I never said I'd do what the majority of readers wanted!
mugro: I asked some questions at the end of the political discussion. maybe you missed it or maybe you're ignoring it, but I'd like to hear your opinion. If not, not.
i can't get enough of this story. i'm just amazed at how roger seems to have convince himself that he's innocent (sort of like OJ). he's obviously lying and his legacy is forever tarnished.
Jack Marshall said...
McNamee is accountable for his own actions.
To be fair and Honest .no I did not read the whole 409 page mitchell report.....But with that said .McNamee in the long run is the only one who will lose everyhing from this debacle.so don't think and speak like he is going unpunished.....Some how or another Clemens still puts a uniform on everyday and will always be a millionaire and Brian Mac will always be looked at as a scumbbag drug dealer without a pot to piss in....Macnamee could not a job in professional baseball ever again and yet Clemens is throwing batting practice......Someone has to stop that.....
9Casey: I agree, absolutely. These millionaires get guys like McNamee to do their dirty work, the little guy goes to jail or on food stamps, and unless the player is a moron and perjures himself, the worst he'll get is a huge pension, an endless supply of stock investment income, and a delayed admission into the Hall of Fame. It is rotten and cruel. But it has always been thus...
i'm just amazed at how roger seems to have convince himself that he's innocent (sort of like OJ)
It's the Costanza Defense:
"It's not a lie if you believe it."
Redsock:
I will check it out. I have not been back to that post recently to read comments.
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